Map suggestions for Epic Greed #1

[holesing]

Anarchy Halls
Canal Warfare
Shoebox
Basically

[Veggie_D]

Votes for

✔ CanalWarfare — brilliant layout, and has roles for most any type of player. Almost never a bad game.

✔ OffTheRails — very UT3. Lots of good routes, makes good use of pickups and deployables.

✔ MegaStructure — fast fast fast. Plays the Z-axis to the hilt. Also, fast.

✔ Skyscraper — another good vertical map. Avrils in lockers keep vehicle-runners from dominating. With the rooftop and lifts well-guarded, it makes for lots of tight action.



Votes against

✗ Anarchy, Shoebox, Atari — fun for awhile, but so stupidly square and simple and ugly that they rot people's brains. None is a horrible choice, but there are many much better alternatives.

✗ ArenaOfLife/Death/Jolt — also simple-ugly-fun, but less brain-rotty.

✗ TrainCrossing — looks exquisitely beautiful, but sadly tends to play like a slog. Unlike most, however, it works better with one-way Greed than the ingress-egress of VCTF.

✗ FeelGood — takes simple-ugly to a whole other level. Maximum spam, minimal fun, immediate brain-rot. The level author should absolutely not be dragged into the street and shot, but only because that is a sick heinous thing to do to another human being. Then again, so was this map.




Choosing smart maps conducive of smart gameplay, and rejecting stupid maps that are little more than a hamster wheel — this as much as anything will define the character and quality of the server and the class of people who play on it.

Please do choose wisely O gods of the UTMapLists.

[Oldskool0482]

If I was to vote for new maps for Greed it would be tough. The only one I would add to the list would be OffTheRails.

I see that people keep putting down Basically and keep saying that it would work. It will not work for the simple reason of it is way way way to easy to score from the upper level down. you can argue one hellbender and you are golden but its to big and open to defend. Anarchy is sorta the same way for greed, it is really really easy to score. The reason why Anarchy is easier defended is its easier access to the upper levels and you can see the whole top which means its more difficult to just run them to the hole. Basically is an awesome map for VCTF, for Greed it would be a terrible map.

If I had to pick 3 maps to play, I'd choose in no particular order...

OffTheRails
Skyscraper-Nightfire (And not cause I made it, it plays very well) Or AnarchyHalls_Coda I'm good with either or.
Canal_Warfare.

I would also suggest Gold Digger_SE if I could choose one more. This is a bigger map, but I think would be extremely fun and has a lot of vehicles for quick transport. It is a very balanced map in terms of gameplay IMO.

[Veggie_D]

Basically ... will not work for the simple reason of it is way way way to easy to score from the upper level down. you can argue one hellbender and you are golden but its to big and open to defend.

I was thinking a team would need to keep their defense forward to prevent skullrunners from making it out of midfield ... and yes I think staunchly positioned Hellbenders go a long ways there ... but you are probably right, altogether an effective defense would require more coordination and strategy than could be expected on the pub Greed server, and it'd usually devolve into a mindless grab-and-score fest.

IMO Anarchy is as bad or worse for Greed than Basically in that respect. Because it's so much smaller, once the other team gains control of the roof, it's that much harder to clear enough space to even attempt to push back on defense. And, apart from the Raptor and hammer+boots–jumping, which few people can do, the only route to the rooftops is the one jump pad per side, so the strong team can just throw rockets and combos at the landings and let teammates dance in from above. Coda would be a little better with its free-air-control jump pads, but not by much. Also, zero Hellbenders or any other heavy defensive vehicle.



And I stupidly forgot about Skyscraper, because I am stupid. Imma change my vote.

[xeanderthal]

Barnburner3!!

or w00t!

[i_am_binky]

[SIZE=4]
Choosing smart maps conducive of smart gameplay, and rejecting stupid maps that are little more than a hamster wheel — this as much as anything will define the character and quality of the server and the class of people who play on it..

arrogant you are says binky

[xeanderthal]

. Mega ... is another map that is not really suited for the Greed Server.

Sadly true. Mega is a great VCTF map (and I it would be interesting as a War map, with node at center - where udamage spawns), the size makes it difficult to enjoy for greed.

[Veggie_D]

If by "time spent wandering around" you mean kills are less frequent than usual, then I guess I'd ask whether that's necessarily a bad (or good) thing, or whether that merely redefines the value of a skull for that map. Less frags, more hunting — a different pace, but IMO fun either way.

In any case, for OffTheRails I'd estimate that with a full-enough server, say 8 or more per side, you'll have enough people bumping into each other that the wandering-around problem should/would take care of itself ... although maybe a full-enough server is too much to expect.

And more or less same deal with Mega, I'd reckon. Big may just be too big.



As to "chill and kill" ... I get that, and sometimes that's a fine mood to have, but ... look, sometimes you just need to save the masses from themselves, to put it bluntly.

How often and for how long has Greed become overrun with a server full of Adderall-grade psychotics, content to vote LostCause six times in a row, and spend each match doing little more than pressing Titan Smash until their eyes bleed. For the love of UT and everything holy, those sanity-droughts are hardly better than an empty server.

If a map like Mega just doesn't work then it just doesn't work, fair enough ... but for the health of the game, I would hope too much stock isn't put into simple fast-burn popularity, either, and I hope the map selection process isn't afraid to challenge the masses' compulsive proclivity for the hamster-wheel, and to keep nudging them toward playing and learning maps that skew toward more intelligent gameplay.

[i_am_binky]

Oh, I get it now.

What you're describing is a Pro server... I used to hang out on those when I played UT99.
Most of those players belonged to Clans, where really knowing the maps mattered, ditto knowing the freaky moves to get extra speed, etc... yeh they all hated spam maps as well lol.

[Oldskool0482]

I was thinking a team would need to keep their defense forward to prevent skullrunners from making it out of midfield ... and yes I think staunchly positioned Hellbenders go a long ways there ... but you are probably right, altogether an effective defense would require more coordination and strategy than could be expected on the pub Greed server, and it'd usually devolve into a mindless grab-and-score fest.

IMO Anarchy is as bad or worse for Greed than Basically in that respect. Because it's so much smaller, once the other team gains control of the roof, it's that much harder to clear enough space to even attempt to push back on defense. And, apart from the Raptor and hammer+boots–jumping, which few people can do, the only route to the rooftops is the one jump pad per side, so the strong team can just throw rockets and combos at the landings and let teammates dance in from above. Coda would be a little better with its free-air-control jump pads, but not by much. Also, zero Hellbenders or any other heavy defensive vehicle.



And I stupidly forgot about Skyscraper, because I am stupid. Imma change my vote.

Usually in a pub server you may have one person playing defense and the rest are all going midfield on. So on Basically it would be one person in a hellbender or raptor defending base and the rest mindlessly going midfield on. So with that scenario it would be harder to defend that from scoring. In a comp match it would work awesomely but in a pub setting it wouldn't work IMO. VCTF it works cause they have to make it back through everyone in mid so being in mid is defense in and of itself. Anarchy on the other hand is so small that you constantly have people spawning and in the defense zone, so you constantly have people there to defend. And the rooftops I would argue that its hard to clear the roof when the other team controls it. One skilled player can take out 2 or 3 players on the roof. As far as the titans on the roof well that is just a chip away effect, you just keep throwing flak at them until they die. I believe that GT was built on top of Coda so the jump pads shouldn't have changed at all, all that was changed was the spawn points and lockers in the back hallway and the invis showing up now during regular play. As far as heavy vehicles, its such a small map that that would ruin it having a big vehicle in it. It was meant to be played as a fast paced map which it gets played that way because there is no major vehicles in it. Skyscraper was built with the same idea in mind, reason why there is all small vehicles in it. I think that if the skill level was higher on average between all players it would be much more even.

If by "time spent wandering around" you mean kills are less frequent than usual, then I guess I'd ask whether that's necessarily a bad (or good) thing, or whether that merely redefines the value of a skull for that map. Less frags, more hunting — a different pace, but IMO fun either way.

In any case, for OffTheRails I'd estimate that with a full-enough server, say 8 or more per side, you'll have enough people bumping into each other that the wandering-around problem should/would take care of itself ... although maybe a full-enough server is too much to expect.

And more or less same deal with Mega, I'd reckon. Big may just be too big.



As to "chill and kill" ... I get that, and sometimes that's a fine mood to have, but ... look, sometimes you just need to save the masses from themselves, to put it bluntly.

How often and for how long has Greed become overrun with a server full of Adderall-grade psychotics, content to vote LostCause six times in a row, and spend each match doing little more than pressing Titan Smash until their eyes bleed. For the love of UT and everything holy, those sanity-droughts are hardly better than an empty server.

If a map like Mega just doesn't work then it just doesn't work, fair enough ... but for the health of the game, I would hope too much stock isn't put into simple fast-burn popularity, either, and I hope the map selection process isn't afraid to challenge the masses' compulsive proclivity for the hamster-wheel, and to keep nudging them toward playing and learning maps that skew toward more intelligent gameplay.

As far as having 8v8, its hard to get those numbers unless its peak times and the mass of those numbers are the people who prefer to keep voting Lost Cause over and over. I wouldn't mind having either Mega or OffTheRails I think they are both very well designed, but with Mega you have the problem of just dropping in on the score hole. The DW/Raptor helps a **** load stopping that but its still very easy to score. OffTheRails I think would work even as a 4v4 type map. Having he tank/Hellender there to defend the hole would make it harder to score which means the games would take longer and it would be a better game. But I can see where people would think its to big. 8v8 is perfect for OffTheRails, but then again Canal_Warfare who was made by the same map maker as OffTheRails is just as big if not bigger and everyone seems to love that no matter how many people, maybe because its more open and easy to find people to kill. I can see the arguments on both sides and both have points. I say put it up, people will say whether they are displeased with it or not like they did with MegaStructure. I am just happy that people are playing customs and are open to playing them.

[i_am_binky]

...I can see the arguments on both sides and both have points. I say put it up, people will say whether they are displeased with it or not like they did with MegaStructure. I am just happy that people are playing customs and are open to playing them.

+1

It's great that Epic is putting custom maps back on their server.

[UTPlayer529th]

Tried Shoebox in Greed mode and it might not last. In-fact I'll be honest, I think it will be a terrible spam map. CTF it was cool but Greed. We had 8 players and it was already feeling like a spam map

I will replace it in my vote with either Canal Warfare or Skyscraper

[geronaho]

offtherails
floodgate
anarchy
shoebox
atari

celebrate!

[UTPlayer529th]

Can a poll have more than 4 choices? When I go to edit my OP it doesn't offer more than 4 .. ?

[wikkid]

Max should be 10.