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    #76
    Originally posted by azurescorch View Post
    Go on a server with FOV mutator, set to 120, have fun Xp
    Shouldn't require a mutator to run FOV 120 :/

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      #77
      Originally posted by HoLoPo1nT View Post
      I still play UT2k4 regularly, which is the game I started the series with so I can't speak to the incarnations of the game that predated 2k4.
      You missed out on some awesome UT gaming in the original UT99. 2000-2002 was just an awesome time to be an FPS gamer because of it. It was possible to find thousands of people playing UT99 24/7 and even as much as 3000 people on the CTF servers at one time. There were active clans and ladders, and I'm pretty sure that over 10,000 custom maps and mods were made for it. In comparison, UT3 is just a tiny shadow of what UT99 was. Heck, even UT 2004 paled in comparison to UT99's success. Many people still think it's the best UT.

      Unfortunately many things outside of EPIC's control didn't really line up properly for when UT3 was released...not only was it buggy at launch but it was different than what was expected by the UT2k4 community.
      But that stuff was in Epic's control. If things like the user interface and server browser weren't in their control then who's control was it in?

      It was inevitable that either the UT99 or UT 2004 community was going to end up disappointed. (Both ended up disappointed.) A big part of the problem was the release of UT 2003-styled UT. If they had just made a legit UT99-2 the first time and retained the same successful winning formula we probably wouldn't be having these kinds of conversations.

      At this point I think that if they make a UT4 it needs to include separate options for UT99 style and UT 2004 style. That way server admins can choose what they like and the marketplace of players can decide. (I think UT99 style is better for non-vehicle games and UT 2004 style is better for Onslaught/Warfare.)

      By the time patch 2.0/titan pack came out, many familiar clan/community leaders had moved on. I don't think the Team Warfare League UT3 ladders were active for very long and I don't think the CPL picked it up as one of their regular tour games (although I might be wrong there).
      UT3 never had much of a clan scene to begin with. In fact, it never had very high player counts overall to begin with and it's hard to have a clan scene without a large player base. UT99 had the largest one. UT 2004's was smaller, and UT3's was almost non-existent. (By clan, I mean an organized group that plays scheduled matches against other clans and not just groups of friends.)

      In short, it's the players that really make a game like this thrive and soooo many players abandoned this game before it got to its current state.
      UT3 was basically a stillborn. Ironically, there was a group of hardcore UT99 pros from the ProUnreal community and UT99 CTF pug match community who liked the basic game play of UT3 and were actually looking forward to it. However when they discovered that the retail release was just as unpolished and consolized as the Beta Demo, they almost immediately lost all interest and continue to play UT99 pug matches to this day.

      I find myself wondering why?
      Let's suppose that you were in the market for a new car. You currently own a polished Lexus with lots of options (say UT99 or UT 2004). You're considering purchasing the newest model of Lexus (UT3). However, it turns out that in the years since your last purchase the brand was bought by a foreign company and that the new model Lexus has the features and build quality of a stripped down Yugo (a cheap junky car from the Eighties that became the butt of many jokes) or an Eighties Chevy Chevette or Ford Escort (they were POS's in the Eighties). In the case of UT3, the influence of consolization moved in and destroyed the game for the PC.

      If you were buying a car, wouldn't you expect the new model to be superior or at least improved in build quality and features? If that new Lexus truly were a Yugo in Lexus clothing, would you buy it? Would you want to drive it?

      That's basically what happened with UT3. First off, it offered fewer game modes than previous UT's. Then the user interface and server browser were total **** compared to what we had in UT99 and UT 2004. (You couldn't even add Favorites to the server browser for the initial UT3 release.) UT3's gameplay isn't bad, but that consolization really rubbed people the wrong way and made it hard for UT fans who were used to so much higher quality to take it seriously. It just had the feel of a console port.

      Then it didn't (and as far as I know still doesn't) have support for Linux servers. It's much harder to produce and manage custom content for it. The Mapvote is far inferior to the Mapvote mods of UT99 and UT 2004. (Maybe that's changed now.) There weren't any team communication-based keybinds possible ("cover me", "Enemy Flag Carrier is here (location)", "defend the base"). It was just a big letdown.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Sourpuss View Post
        At this point I think that if they make a UT4 it needs to include separate options for UT99 style and UT 2004 style. That way server admins can choose what they like and the marketplace of players can decide. (I think UT99 style is better for non-vehicle games and UT 2004 style is better for Onslaught/Warfare.)
        F*ck UT2kx's movement. The utterly crappy movement that the UTkx brought was what really separated the UT fans. To keep fans united, they need to choose one movement style and stick with it. UT1's/UT3's. That's it. And vehicular-wise, UT3 is nothing short of UTkx. And really, why would you release a game with 2 different movement styles? That's just stupid.

        ---

        IMO, to save the UT franchise, they should keep it PC exclusive. I'd like to share with you this idea that I came up with:
        Epic would announce the new UT and make a website with a donation system close to Wikipedia's to support the developers. Any UT fan or other gamer interested in a release would have to contribute. In the time the game would be in the making, I guess there would be a lot of $$$ from the donations to cover up the cost of developing. Then, they'd release the game freeware. Afterwards, this donation system would still be active to anyone who liked the game and felt that the company deserved some extra $, and to the fan who wanted non-paid DLC. This would end up with the piracy problem. Also, no more publisher means no rush and consequently buggy release. Finally, the PC exclusive part would mean no more consolized **** and dumbed down PC version with half of it's content cut off because consoles wouldn't handle it.

        For the consoles, Epic would bring a successor to UC2, which is much more console-friendly than UT (IMO) and get a way to make cross-platform multiplaying between PS4 and Xbox-something-other-than -720. UC2 was really hard IMO, so they'd have brainstorm some way to ease up the game. Note that the donation system explained above wouldn't work in this case. Also, if UC3 was really good, gamers who got UT4 would also buy this game, so Epic would get extra income.

        I know that this whole idea has some flaws, but I think it could work. Feel free to add your comments/improvements.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by HugoMarques View Post
          Epic would announce the new UT and make a website with a donation system close to Wikipedia's to support the developers. Any UT fan or other gamer interested in a release would have to contribute. In the time the game would be in the making, I guess there would be a lot of $$$ from the donations to cover up the cost of developing.
          i am not going to pay for a game that is still in the making.
          maybe i pay for something realy crapy. and after ut3 i whould not like to make the bet that ut4 will be any good.
          and i'm prety sure that most people think the same way.
          it whold be a fail (EPIC fail) if people can only buy the game when it's in the making xD

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by partydevil View Post
            i am not going to pay for a game that is still in the making.
            maybe i pay for something realy crapy. and after ut3 i whould not like to make the bet that ut4 will be any good.
            and i'm prety sure that most people think the same way.
            it whold be a fail (EPIC fail) if people can only buy the game when it's in the making xD
            You might not, but lots would.

            I guess it'd depend on time frame involved and obviously money involved. I mean just suppose there was a 'contribute UT4' running total at the top of this forum page, with the promise that when it hits a certain total, work starts on a new UT, it'd probably generate quite a bit of interest, wouldn't it?

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by HugoMarques View Post
              F*ck UT2kx's movement. The utterly crappy movement that the UTkx brought was what really separated the UT fans. To keep fans united, they need to choose one movement style and stick with it. UT1's/UT3's. That's it. And vehicular-wise, UT3 is nothing short of UTkx. And really, why would you release a game with 2 different movement styles? That's just stupid.
              I'm sympathetic to what you're saying, but at this point the genie is already out of the bottle; UT 2004 has its own loyal following. I think UT 2004 movement works fine for Onslaught--I like UT 2004 Onslaught. However, UT 2004's on-foot games are inferior to those of UT99. I think Bombing Run is a great idea that would definitely benefit from UT99 feel and movement.

              IMO, to save the UT franchise, they should keep it PC exclusive.
              I agree. Or at least focus on the PC version and release it first and then develop the console versions as ports of the PC version.

              I've never understood why people pre-order games. What if the game is awful or contains a serious bug that cannot be fixed? What if the game is never released and you're left holding your d**k?

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Nono View Post
                You might not, but lots would.

                I guess it'd depend on time frame involved and obviously money involved. I mean just suppose there was a 'contribute UT4' running total at the top of this forum page, with the promise that when it hits a certain total, work starts on a new UT, it'd probably generate quite a bit of interest, wouldn't it?

                the idea sounds good but what about people that do not watch this forum?
                those that are new the serie when ut4 get's launched? they can not play because they didn't pay? or they can play whit freeware. but then why should you pay for the making?

                if it comes out that not enoufg people sponsord epic to make ut4. then 1. they still make it and @ ut5 no1 will be paying beforhand anymore because they know epic will make it anyway. or 2. they don't make it whit a chance to get sued. because they collected money for a goal that never started.

                what if it takes longer to make the game then there is money to pay the developers? it's not a very profitable formula. but your idea on a own as a extra whold help getting a nice extra interest indeed. but it will need the normale retail distribution to get the real money. maybe a lower price for those that payed befor making. but those are details.

                keep in mind that epic games is still a company. their total goal is profit

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by partydevil View Post
                  it whold be a fail (EPIC fail) if people can only buy the game when it's in the making xD
                  You're misinterpreting me. I never said that fans were obligated to contribute. You'd only donate if you were interested. The game would be later released as a freeware product and fans could mirror the download and put it on torrents, but Epic wouldn't have to care about that. The bucks would be already in their pockets. And afterwards, if the game was well done (and it would be, seeing as it would be a PC exclusive), any gamer could still contribute as a way of saying thanks for a fantastic and free game.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by HugoMarques View Post
                    (and it would be, seeing as it would be a PC exclusive)
                    where youve seen that? from the very little info ive seen from epic it sounds kinda like they will do the next ut the ut3 way again. (also the way they talk about ut3 =/ )

                    don't mind if you ment pc exclusive in combo whit the rest of the idea.
                    then this comment was never posted =P

                    ================================================== =========================

                    added edit:
                    but still it's not very profitable. seeing as they are part of EA games now. EA is probably wanting to see some money rolling for their contract whit epic. and we all know that EA is a very big moneygrubber. (nothing bad whit it in my eye's but it has some bad side effects. it makes them not care about their product anymore.) maybe behind the scene forcing epic to go console. (no proof at all for that last ) also has epic bought "people can fly" they are best whit porting to the pc. not so much whit porting to console.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Random54 View Post
                      Shouldn't require a mutator to run FOV 120 :/
                      This is true, it shouldn't. Personally I play with 100, though if my monitor was slightly bigger I'd prefer a nice 110. No idea why epic decided to place such a low limit.

                      Originally posted by Sourpuss View Post
                      What if the game is never released and you're left holding your d**k?
                      You can cancel pre-orders and get a refund. Even on steam.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Sourpuss View Post
                        But that stuff was in Epic's control. If things like the user interface and server browser weren't in their control then who's control was it in?
                        Yeah, I didn't really elaborate there too much. Things such as the popularity of real-world shooters like CS:Source and the Battlefield series..the popularity of consoles, the MMO-steamroller gobbling up players, the failure of Quake 4 a couple years earlier (a similar-styled shooter), PhysX not yet acquired by Nvidia and the general, consumer tech continuum as it related to PC gaming at that time, etc, etc.


                        At this point I think that if they make a UT4 it needs to include separate options for UT99 style and UT 2004 style. That way server admins can choose what they like and the marketplace of players can decide. (I think UT99 style is better for non-vehicle games and UT 2004 style is better for Onslaught/Warfare.)
                        The switch in movement style between UT2k4 and UT3 didn't bother me. I like them both for how they are. Being able to calibrate game physics on a server to one style or the other is a pretty cool idea that would offer more variety to the playerbase for sure.


                        UT3 never had much of a clan scene to begin with. In fact, it never had very high player counts overall to begin with and it's hard to have a clan scene without a large player base. UT99 had the largest one. UT 2004's was smaller, and UT3's was almost non-existent. (By clan, I mean an organized group that plays scheduled matches against other clans and not just groups of friends.)
                        Currently, I see a lot of older maps having been redone in UE3..at least the ones I'm familiar with from UT2k4 and the game runs really well on my admittedly average gaming rig. The gameplay's excellent imho and the game seems ripe for a resurgence in interest which could definitely support an active, competitive clan environment.

                        The pieces are all on the table, they just havn't been set in the right places yet. Eh, they may never be but it is within the realm of possibility that they could be!

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by partydevil View Post
                          also has epic bought "people can fly" they are best whit porting to the pc.
                          Oh, yeah, PC Bulletstorm is a fantastic console port...

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by partydevil View Post
                            the idea sounds good but what about people that do not watch this forum?
                            those that are new the serie when ut4 get's launched? they can not play because they didn't pay? or they can play whit freeware. but then why should you pay for the making?

                            if it comes out that not enoufg people sponsord epic to make ut4. then 1. they still make it and @ ut5 no1 will be paying beforhand anymore because they know epic will make it anyway. or 2. they don't make it whit a chance to get sued. because they collected money for a goal that never started.

                            what if it takes longer to make the game then there is money to pay the developers? it's not a very profitable formula. but your idea on a own as a extra whold help getting a nice extra interest indeed. but it will need the normale retail distribution to get the real money. maybe a lower price for those that payed befor making. but those are details.

                            keep in mind that epic games is still a company. their total goal is profit
                            Well there are lots of possible formulas, the idea of a basic freeware game, with say a couple of DM maps, then using the paid DLC model for loads of new content is another promising one.

                            Some may say , "No to DLC!". But it may literally be a choice between this kind of sales model and not getting another UT full stop. I mean , let's face it, many think the idea that Epic will stump up the $ and time commitment to make an AAA UT4 after UT3's less than stellar outing is... unlikely , and this however dear the UT franchise is to them. Getting the core right in a freeware game, then expanding interest would be a lot less risky.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              anyway no need to dream for another ut, it prolly won't happen. The solution has been given several times and here also. Just do an ut3.5 with udk, try as much as possible to make udk able to "absorb " ut3 content without ****loads of work (for mods+maps+mutators etc), and why not some minor changes and maybe... let's dream... a very small ""patch"" included in it, to fix the last IMPORTANT stuffs that are still annoying (not like PLZ epic it lacks some grass near upper node on islander, very important fix it plz !11!1!!) and that's it.
                              That is the easier, faster, cheaper and more realistic solution anyway (so as it's the cheapest, that is the most interesting one for them x) ), the new engine and the eventual small fixes are enough to put some highlights over it again.
                              That would keep ppl "hungried of ut" around (and also help them waiting) if one day, they ever decide to release another one, at least let's hope at the good moment....

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by LLonewolf View Post
                                anyway no need to dream for another ut, it prolly won't happen. The solution has been given several times and here also. Just do an ut3.5 with udk, try as much as possible to make udk able to "absorb " ut3 content without ****loads of work (for mods+maps+mutators etc), and why not some minor changes and maybe... let's dream... a very small ""patch"" included in it, to fix the last IMPORTANT stuffs that are still annoying (not like PLZ epic it lacks some grass near upper node on islander, very important fix it plz !11!1!!) and that's it.
                                That is the easier, faster, cheaper and more realistic solution anyway (so as it's the cheapest, that is the most interesting one for them x) ), the new engine and the eventual small fixes are enough to put some highlights over it again.
                                That would keep ppl "hungried of ut" around (and also help them waiting) if one day, they ever decide to release another one, at least let's hope at the good moment....
                                Everyone would love to see UT3 bug fixed and pimped up by using the latest UDK build. The only problem with repackaging UT3 tho, is it won't exactly generate much new attention.

                                Btw, I don't think another major upheaval in movement is a good idea, if or when UT4 comes.

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