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Can someone describe the differences between the original UT and UT3?

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    Can someone describe the differences between the original UT and UT3?

    As the title says I am curious as to what some of the differences are as far as player movement/ weapon function/etc between UT and UT3. * I do not mean obvious things like "UT3 has vehicles and the orb". I havent played much of the original UT so I figured I'd ask for an experienced opinion. I am very familiar with every aspect of UT3.. Why do I ask? I am doing research for a possible UDK arena shooter game inspired by the UT games, Quake, Warsow, and Nexuiz.

    Thanks.

    #2
    UT has ginormous hitboxes relative to the player model, although the player models are quite small, and move insanely fast.
    The crosshair fades away over bright surfaces.
    No double jump, no wall-dodging, higher single jump.
    Faster game speed, cramped spaces.
    Maps tend to have a ****ton of geometry subtleties that allow for an insane amount of movement development and avoiding enemy fire.
    Shock primary does 55 damage, core are a lot harder to hit than UT3, nevermind UT2004. Shock combo distance is insanely short (thus awesome).
    Sniper has insane fire rate.
    Armor = 100, pads = 50, belt = 150.
    Mini secondary is just primary with faster fire rate but wider bullet spread.
    Rocket launcher can load up to 6 rockets (spiraled/spread) with primary, secondary is for grenades (toggle instant-fire).
    Bio secondary makes you explode instantly, and deals some ridiculous amount of damage, however in return it's almost impossible to hit while fully loaded, primary is also useful unlike UT3's.
    Flak primary has a noticeably more random shard pattern, doesn't work from 53 miles away like UT3's, secondary has a less prominent arc, making it feel more like a grenade launcher instead of a catapult (thus also awesome).
    Ripper.
    Pulse gun, deals insane damage. Most admin'd servers have a no-lockdown standard for pulse (and mini) because of the insane damage they yield.
    Barely no invisible-projectiles bug.
    Walk command exists.
    Jump boots activate on first jump (since double jump does not exist), however, if you walk+jump, you can bypass this and still move around the map.
    FANTASTIC GUI, with a very advanced preferences panel, which lets you edit almost every setting in the .inis.


    It's an awesome game, similar to an extent to UT3, not so much to UT2004. As in UT3, every weapon is very, very powerful, so in turn it's really balanced, with each weapon having its place. I'd highly recommend you getting it and test things out yourself. You can also kinda sorta compare them 'directly' by downloading Hazel H's DM-Subterrane for UT port, which pretty much trumps the UT3 version in every way.

    Hope this helped.


    *You might not like the "ugly" graphics (there's lots of insane high-res texture packs out there to improve on this).

    Comment


      #3
      about the weapons a big change is to not have the ripper in stock weapons, no weapon to catch someone behind a corner with bouncing "discs"
      for the rest nothing jump to my mind, except perhaps that ut99 propose more "open" maps with less obstacles, curves (cubical & linear aspect of a 10 yrs old game)and decorations(bsp rules) = better lisibility of the maps and game more "aim" oriented....personnal feeling of course

      Comment


        #4
        The original UT is very fugly compared to UT3.

        Clunkier dodging, less fluid movement, rapid fire sniper rifles. Not as much "visceral" combat as UT3. Still fun, though, since a lot of the maps are interesting.

        UT2004 feels floaty, and the maps are disproportionally large. However, UT2004 has a much more fluid and dodging system compared to the original UT.

        UT3 simply combined different aspects of UT and UT2004 and improved the combat by a factor of 5, and the weapon balance by a factor of 2. A bit more gravity was added to eliminate the vague floaty feeling you get in UT2004.

        In my opinion, UT3 is the funnest game of the three, but you need a good computer to enjoy it. UT3 could benefit with more varied maps like in UT2004.

        Comment


          #5
          DANGER: super long post!

          First of all, the movement is different:

          Of course you could dodge but there was no walldodge, double jump and you could die faster what concerns falling down. Let's say you survive a fall of 1024UU in UT3 but you will never survive them in UT99. The player also moved faster than in UT3.
          Also the gravity was different. You could dodge further than in UT3, although just slightly.
          ________________________
          Second, there are slightly different functions of the weapons:

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Ut_w1.jpg[/shot]
          The Impact Hammer: It behaves sightly different. The primary fire mode is the same but the alternative fire mode is not an EMP but fast impacts with the hammer on your target while holding the alternative fire mode. It's like you'd press fire fire fire fire fire ,etc with the UT3 IH.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Ut_w2.jpg[/shot]
          The Enforcer: First fire mode was stronger than in UT3 and had a better accuracy. IIrc it was 25hp. The alternative fire mode was also different. You shot faster in gangster style (weapon has been rotated, 90°) but the accuracy was worse (but not as bad as the accuracy of the Assault Rifle in 2k3/4). It was not like in UT3 where you just shot 3 fast shots and had to wait. You could shoot twice as fast without any waiting.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Biorifle-ut.jpg[/shot]
          The Bio Rifle: It had some kind of knock back on the weapon while shooting. You shot in an arch like from about 25° in the air when your crosshair has been pointing on the horizon. The regular fire mode was also way more useful than in UT3. You can hurt yourself when you stand too close to your target. When you shoot a charged bio glob if will kill your enemy immediately. But it can also kill yourself very easy. It didn't stick to the enemy like it does in UT3 but it was like in UT2003/4 where it was like a regular projectile with splash damage and because of this it is a "fairer" weapon than the UT3 Bio imo.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/ShockUT.jpg[/shot]
          The Shock Rifle: It could kill an enemy with 100hp with 2 shots. With Udamage you just need 1 shot. Like instagib as long as the enemy has no shield or extra life. Furthermore, the effect was VERY different. You can't compare it with UT3 or 2k3/4. First there was the deadly impact on the target followed by the short laser beam which was more like a rocket trail just in purple and made out of plasma. It was still hitscan. The shock combo had an additional shock wave which has been created depending on the direction of the shot and it behaved like the 2k3/4 shombo and didn't pull you towards it but did the opposite. Just like a regular explosion but by far heavier!

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Ut_w5.jpg[/shot]
          The Pulse Gun: It's the same weapon as the Link Gun. There is just one difference: No linking with teammates! The regular fire mode was almost twice as fast and looked more like green rotating plasma balls. The round end of the weapon you can see on this screenshot has been rotating while using the regular fire.

          [shot]http://lh5.ggpht.com/_MsZb8mYFoCs/TAuJ6j4DnSI/AAAAAAAAKIc/mXMka1yZ2pA/s576/unreal-tournament.jpg[/shot]
          The Minigun: No Stinger, just a minigun. No Tarydium shards just bullets! Both firemodes were hitscan. Both fire modes are slowier than the Stinger Minigun's in UT3. The regular one was a slowier one but with a rather good accuracy. The alternative fire mode was a faster one with less accuracy but about half of what the regular one of the Stinger Minigun is in UT3.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Flakcannon-ut.jpg[/shot]
          The Flak Cannon: The spread was a bit like in UT3 but the projectiles didn't glow for long. The glow dissapeared after about 1 second but the deadly shrapnels were still bouncing around and could hurt you or your enemy. The alternative fire mode Flak shell flew straight out of the weapon unlike in UT3 where you can see it flies under a certain degree out of the weapon. Furthermore, it had a bigger range and the shrapnels which came out after the explosion of the Flak shell behaved and were about as deadly as the regular ones.

          [shot]http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/u/unreal_tournament_for_linux-272119-1250049008.jpeg[/shot]
          The Rocket Launcher: It could load up to 6 rockets when you hold the regular fire button. The alternative fire button loaded up to 6 granades. It could also shoot a spiral if you hold both buttons before shooting some rockets.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Ut_w6.jpg[/shot]
          The Ripper (my favorite weapon.. I miss it in UT2k3/4 and UT3..): The Ripper shoots fast moving razor blades which can cut off someone's head (you get a headshot for doing so). They bounce off from walls and you can even cut off your own head! The firing rate is about the same as the UT99 Enforcer's firing rate. The alternative fire mode was only half as fast what concerns firing rate and the blades were slowier but they exploded! They don't deal that much damage but they're good to shoot an enemy off an edge

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Utrifle.jpg[/shot]
          The Sniper Rifle: It shoots about twice as fast as the UT3 sniper rifle and has no trial! It's easy to get headshots with it, easier than in UT3. The zoom had no black edged, you could see everything like before just that your crosshair "changed" to a bigger one version (green with one cycle).
          [shot]http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/17707-unreal-tournament-windows-screenshot-head-shot.jpg[/shot]
          Zoom of the Sniper Rifle.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Trans-ut.jpg[/shot]
          The Translocator: It's similar to the UT3 one but you could shoot it a bit further. Another important aspect is that you could "kick" it with your Impact Hammer and it flew veeeery far. Camera was also available like in any other UT I guess. A big difference was this: You used it with your other hand! If you have chosen right hand as your weapon hand you used the Translocator with your left hand. If you have chosen the left hand as your weapon hand you used the Translocator with the right hand. You could switch back to the previous weapon by pressing regular fire and alternative fire together, like in 2k3/4 (which is way better than in UT3 with Q imo). You had unlimited ammo. You could teleport as much as you like.

          [shot]http://liandri.beyondunreal.com/w/images/Redeemer-ut.jpg[/shot]
          The Redeemer: It consumed about 1/3 of your screen! Like in 2k3/4 you could shoot it directly after you have selected it and you didn't have to wait for it to open itself like the UT3 Redeemer does. It was like a regular weapon. You could have 2 missiles in it. The alternative fire mode looked almost exactly like in UT2003/4 just that it was way harder to control. It was harder to control than the UT3 Redeemer missile. If somebody has denied it you could still get a frag from the small explosion. Sometimes if you hit somebody directly the Redeemer acts like a super strong Rocket Launcher missile and there is no big explosion but a small one. But this happens rarely. I'm not sure if these people or bots shot it then. I can't tell for sure. The explosion was deadlier. The look of the explosion: It was like a translucent white ball which became bigger and bigger and finally faded to invisible but as long as the smallest piece of white was still visible you could die by it. There was rarely a "oh I survived"-moment unless you have been hiding behind a box or something. Moreover, it was a long and thin missile. It was thin as a Rocket Launcher missile but way longer and it was white. And you could read "Hasta La Vista!" or "sayōnara" (I think it was sayōnara) on it. I'm 100% sure it was not "Swallow This!". That was on the 2k3/4 Redeemer missile.
          ________________________
          The gameplay:
          There was just Udamage and the invisibility pickup, no berserker, invulnerability, adrenaline or whatever. When you picked Udamage up there was no purple layer on your weapon skin, instead the whole weapon became translucent purple with some kind of shiny plasma skin. It was like that in both: 1st and 3rd person view. Of course you had a purple light aura like in any other UT.

          Invisibility didn't make you 100% invisible. You had some kind of distortion effect so that you could see the shape of invisible players when standing close to them but it was hard to see them from far away.

          There were several types of gameplay:
          Normal, Hardcore, and something else I can't remember. Hardcore was the default one and that one which has been played the most on servers. It increased weapon strenght by 1.25 or something like that and you had more aircontrol. Can't remember it that well, would need to launch UT now to check it. Will also tell you what you could read on the Redeemer missile then.

          You had jumpboots which have been triggered by jumping, not by double jump because there was none.

          There was a feign death option but there was no ragdoll back then. Instead your character just lay on the ground. Instead of seeing everything in 3rd person view like in UT3 you could see it only in 1st person view.

          The maps were very "claustrophobic" compared to UT3 and UT2003/4. The corridors were small and you could get killed very easily in such corridors. A perfect example of such a typical UT99 map is Deck16][, Curse][ and Fetid.
          ________________________
          The gametypes:
          You had Assault (it was a bit different compared to 2k4's AS: There were no objectives shown or anything like that. There was no arrow, nothing! You had to open a separate menu with the objectives listed and could select them with the mouse to see what you have to do. In the Tournament mode itself you had an objective briefing before you started the match. The objective appeared in the list and have been described by a voice -not the announcer, it was the voice of a Tournament combatant), DM (the default option for DM and TDM was: no "weapon stay"! You could turn it on but it was disabled by default), TDM, LMS (Last Man Standing: like in 2k4: You had all weapons -except Redeemer, Super Shock Rifle and Translocator - with max. ammo and had a limited number of lives. The last combatant who is alive has won the match) CTF and DOM. If you don't know how regular Domination is like I'll tell you: There are 3 points spread over the map and by touching them you control them (like in 2k3/4 with DDOM). You get points every second, depending on how many points you control. It goes up to a certain score. Who reaches this score first wins. You could play with up to 4 teams!
          [shot]http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/45/04/173554.jpeg[/shot]
          Domination gametype screenshot. Here you can actually see the shock wave of the shock combo (note: that one's with team colors). That's what I meant by that. Too bad you can't really see the delayed beam on a screenshot :/

          There were no instagib gametypes like iCTF in UT2004. Instagib was just a mutator which modified the Shock Rifle. The Shock Rifle was called Super Shock Rifle in the game.
          [shot]http://ui01.gamespot.com/1536/monsterkill_2.png[/shot]
          That's how it looked like. Just the color of the skin is now orange and the laser beam changed to orange as well. Instead of the small purple shock wave you got when you hit the wall, an enemy of whatever with the regular Shock Rifle you now got a orange shock wave and a explosion in the size of the Rocket Launcher missiles!

          [shot]http://mothership.beyondunreal.com/features/chaosut/chaos4.jpg[/shot]
          The hit of a Super Shock beam.
          Sorry, can't find a picture of the Super Shock Rifle's beam
          ________________________
          Various other things:

          [shot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/%5BApoc%5DDiscord/hudscoreboardflagmonitor.jpg[/shot]
          The red/blue flag had a yellow team symbol on it like in this picture (this is a small UT2004 modification).
          [shot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/%5BApoc%5DDiscord/yellowescmenu.jpg[/shot]
          Here are the two team symbols so that you know how they actually look like.

          [shot]http://www.3dfxzone.it/public/uploaded/benna/200814125646_ut99menu_hypersnap.JPG[/shot]
          There was the (today rather infamous ) Uwindow as a menu in use. It was very cool imo! Very well structured and made with a lot of love. I don't get it why they dropped it in the later versions! It was unique!

          The style was unique. It had a big mixture of maps in the style of Unreal 1 (e.g. Barricade, Arcane, KGalleon), city maps where you play in or on skyscrapers (e.g. Crane, High, Tempest), many space maps (e.g. Hyperblast, Orbital, Morpheus), just strange Sci-Fi maps (like Fractal) and maps in a rusty, industrial style (e.g. Pressure, Shrapnel][, Dreary).
          The first UT was closely connected to the very first Unreal game, Unreal 1. In many maps you could actually see that they were outposts on Na Pali because when you look out of a window or if you look closely you could see the Sunspire in the background or the two suns of Na Pali. Even the weapon design was very similar. They are just advanced models and look more like modern human weapons. The only models which changed rather drastically were the Minigun, the ASMD Shock Rifle and the Rocket Launcher. The original Eightball (Rocket Launcher) had a very different look. It's hard to describe, it looks more like the 2k3/4 Rocket Launcher, just rusty and with 6 barrels. The ASMD (which was not called Shock Rifle at that time) was flat and had rather a form of a quadratic board. The design colors were similar to the UT model. The UT model is as you can see on the pictures rater slim and long. It changed a lot.
          The Minigun looks completely different. It has just one big rotating part with 5 (?) barrels instead of 2 rotating parts with 3 barrels per part.
          Furthermore, the Pulse Gun replaces the original Stinger, the Impact Hammer replaces the Dispersion Pistol and the Ripper replaces the RazorJack (which had a very similar function but had no exploding blades and the design was like a "U" with the blade in between the "U" which looked like a shuriken with just 3 sharp endings). The rest looks almost the same and didn't really change in its functionallity

          The sounds of the weapons were pretty awesome! They showed you that the weapons are powerful.

          You could see a hand like in UT3 but it was always the same hand, didn't matter if you were Skaarj, Nali, Nali warcow or a robot.

          The announcer did only say things like Double Kill, Multikill, etc, Headshot, First Blood, [time] remaining, Killingspree, Rampage, etc. and not things like Domination point this and that controlled by blue. There was just an "evil" male announcer. If you want to know how he sounds like turn on classic announcer in UT2004. Instead of "Monsterkill" he said "Mo-mo-mo-mo-mo-monsterkill-kill-kill". It's like a remix of a regular Monsterkill announcement.
          There was no "Mega Kill". It was Double Kill, Multi Kill, Ultra Kill, Monsterkill.

          Instant Action was called "Practise Session".

          @jomi: Change the color of your crosshair. That's possible. The best one is green in UT99 since you don't have that many green maps. But even then this bright green is visible.

          I hope I could help you with this big post.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Sly. View Post
            @jomi: Change the color of your crosshair. That's possible. The best one is green in UT99 since you don't have that many green maps. But even then this bright green is visible.
            Nope, unfortunately it's hardcoded in the game. There's no way to bypass this.

            Comment


              #7
              Go to Options->Preferences->HUD, take a look at the lower end of the new window and change the color meters or the crosshair (or whatever the name of it is) so that green is the only on on the right side and red and blue have to be left. Then you have a green crosshair

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Sly. View Post
                Go to Options->Preferences->HUD, take a look at the lower end of the new window and change the color meters or the crosshair (or whatever the name of it is) so that green is the only on on the right side and red and blue have to be left. Then you have a green crosshair
                ...

                It has nothing to do with color. You can make a brand new .pcx with whatever color/texture you want, it will fade off under bright scenarios. Perhaps launch that .exe and try it out yourself. That was one of my main gripes with the game. The resolution of the crosshair is also poop, but there's some mutators around (ACE) that help out with this. I actually ended up just cutting a piece of paper and pasting it on the center of my screen because I couldn't get past the disappearing crosshair.


                Edit:
                I just noticed your previous post actually even includes screenshots where you can see this fade-off effect. How are you arguing the opposite? This behavior can prove difficult to overcome if you like seeing your crosshair during actual battles.
                Originally posted by Sly
                [shot]http://www.mobygames.com/images/i/45/04/173554.jpeg[/shot]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Okay, my fault. I checked it and now I see what you mean. The crosshair is translucent and hard to see on bright surfaces, e.g. coronas, Shock Cores and Redeemer explosions.
                  Well, to be honest, it did never bother me at all.
                  However, every person is different.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    One of the biggest differences for me, and one of the main reasons ctf failed, was due to not having the already mentioned "telepunting" and overall uselessness of the trans. Also, ut3's impact hammer is overly hard to pull off stunts compared to ut99.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      thanks for all the in depth replies. jomi and Sly definitely deserve cookies

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You're forgetting the 2k3/2k4/ut3 midget syndrome which UT, thankfully, doesn't have.

                        [shot]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6138/ut3playermodelsize.jpg[/shot]
                        This is a ut3 player model standing straight up.

                        [shot]http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1917/utmodelheight1.jpg[/shot]
                        Even bending forward with an arched back the UT model looks taller and fills the screen more. You have to look slightly up in order for your xhair to be at the forehead.

                        [shot]http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9189/utmodelheight2.jpg[/shot]
                        When standing up completely, my xhair is right at the models chest height.

                        UT models are MUCH easier to see from a distance thanks to their better height. They also don't look like midgets from two feet away unlike UT3, which is one of my biggest problems with the game.

                        Here's a thread I made about the subject and a mutator that I think almost fixes the problem. It's slightly buggy online and maybe reduce the upped height by 5% and you'd be perfect.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sanch3z View Post
                          thanks for all the in depth replies. jomi and Sly definitely deserve cookies
                          You should watch this movie, pretty fun.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by JohnDoe641 View Post
                            When standing up completely, my xhair is right at the models chest height.
                            Surely all this means is the 'Camera' in ut99 is located in your CHEST rather than your character's face. (Same case in Quake2 iirc).

                            In fact, if I recall correctly, the majority of games back then had the camera in the chest. Now games have the camera at head height. As it should be. As your eyes are in your head. Not your torso.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by azurescorch View Post
                              Surely all this means is the 'Camera' in ut99 is located in your CHEST rather than your character's face. (Same case in Quake2 iirc).

                              In fact, if I recall correctly, the majority of games back then had the camera in the chest. Now games have the camera at head height. As it should be. As your eyes are in your head. Not your torso.
                              Since you always have the xhairs in the center of the screen, shouldn't the camera really be placed in the barrel of the gun?

                              Comment

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