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    Bot Target Tracking (minigun/link gun)

    tl;dr version: Bot ability with link gun alt/minigun is disproportionately high compared to their skill with anything else. Why? And why hasn't it been fixed?

    As much as I try to get over this, it still manages to ruin my day. What is with the bot's ability to lock onto a target with weapons such as the minigun and link alt? This problem has existed in the UT series since (I believe) the original. Bots will lock and track me as I soar over their heads with inhuman consistency, and I'm dead before I land. If I do survive, they bot will retain their lock and charge directly towards me. Effective maybe, but totally unlike any human behavior. This skill is incredibly inconsistent with their skill with any other weapons, including projectiles and single-shot hitscan weapons. Why hasn't this problem been addressed? It's been several games and countless patches since I've noticed it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    I was actually going to email Steve Polge directly with this question but I can't find his contact information anywhere. Honestly it prevents me from enjoying this game. I'm fairly high up in difficulty levels, and I manage, until a bot whips out their link gun in close range. Sure there's this whole online thing, but I enjoy playing with 0 lag on the maps of my choosing. But this issue make me pull my hair out man. Is it really so technically difficult, compared to the rest of the programming for a game like this, to make their behavior with these weapons more realistic? Because I can't imagine it would be left this way be design. I know nothing about AI programming but how is it that player speed (absolute or relative to bot's POV) seems to have no effect on the bot's tracking ability?

    Thoughts?

    #2
    Originally posted by Phayder View Post
    tl;dr version: Bot ability with link gun alt/minigun is disproportionately high compared to their skill with anything else. Why? And why hasn't it been fixed?

    As much as I try to get over this, it still manages to ruin my day. What is with the bot's ability to lock onto a target with weapons such as the minigun and link alt? This problem has existed in the UT series since (I believe) the original. Bots will lock and track me as I soar over their heads with inhuman consistency, and I'm dead before I land. If I do survive, they bot will retain their lock and charge directly towards me. Effective maybe, but totally unlike any human behavior. This skill is incredibly inconsistent with their skill with any other weapons, including projectiles and single-shot hitscan weapons. Why hasn't this problem been addressed? It's been several games and countless patches since I've noticed it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

    I was actually going to email Steve Polge directly with this question but I can't find his contact information anywhere. Honestly it prevents me from enjoying this game. I'm fairly high up in difficulty levels, and I manage, until a bot whips out their link gun in close range. Sure there's this whole online thing, but I enjoy playing with 0 lag on the maps of my choosing. But this issue make me pull my hair out man. Is it really so technically difficult, compared to the rest of the programming for a game like this, to make their behavior with these weapons more realistic? Because I can't imagine it would be left this way be design. I know nothing about AI programming but how is it that player speed (absolute or relative to bot's POV) seems to have no effect on the bot's tracking ability?

    Thoughts?
    The difficulty is forcing the bots to miss on purpose. They are already programmed to be proficient in player tracking, to nerf them enough so that they suck with the link gun will make them even worse with regular weapons.

    In my opinion.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Gameslaya View Post
      The difficulty is forcing the bots to miss on purpose. They are already programmed to be proficient in player tracking, to nerf them enough so that they suck with the link gun will make them even worse with regular weapons.

      In my opinion.
      Definitely true. It's much harder to make bots dumb than it is to make them smart. But as I said before, I think this aiming behavior has existed in Epic's AI for over 10 years. Given the progress of the rest of the engine, I am surprised this seemingly significant problem has not been fixed or at the very least improved.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Phayder View Post
        Definitely true. It's much harder to make bots dumb than it is to make them smart..
        I'd say it's harder to make them realistic than dumb. Bots, even on godlike are pretty retarded.

        Try a duel, charge up goo, sit near the belt/udamage and watch them constantly attempt to pick it up whilst getting a face full of goo each time.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Phayder View Post
          tl;dr version: Bot ability with link gun alt/minigun is disproportionately high compared to their skill with anything else. Why? And why hasn't it been fixed?

          As much as I try to get over this, it still manages to ruin my day. What is with the bot's ability to lock onto a target with weapons such as the minigun and link alt? This problem has existed in the UT series since (I believe) the original. Bots will lock and track me as I soar over their heads with inhuman consistency, and I'm dead before I land. If I do survive, they bot will retain their lock and charge directly towards me. Effective maybe, but totally unlike any human behavior. This skill is incredibly inconsistent with their skill with any other weapons, including projectiles and single-shot hitscan weapons. Why hasn't this problem been addressed? It's been several games and countless patches since I've noticed it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

          I was actually going to email Steve Polge directly with this question but I can't find his contact information anywhere. Honestly it prevents me from enjoying this game. I'm fairly high up in difficulty levels, and I manage, until a bot whips out their link gun in close range. Sure there's this whole online thing, but I enjoy playing with 0 lag on the maps of my choosing. But this issue make me pull my hair out man. Is it really so technically difficult, compared to the rest of the programming for a game like this, to make their behavior with these weapons more realistic? Because I can't imagine it would be left this way be design. I know nothing about AI programming but how is it that player speed (absolute or relative to bot's POV) seems to have no effect on the bot's tracking ability?

          Thoughts?
          That's not completly true. They were as good as now with the Link/Pulse Gun back then. But it annoys me as well. Meet a bot with Link Gun and you're dead. Making them dumb would make them worse with other weapons as well I think.
          There's nothing you can do about that.
          (Nice to see that I'm not the only one)

          Comment


            #6
            try using slomo < .7.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by azurescorch View Post
              I'd say it's harder to make them realistic than dumb. Bots, even on godlike are pretty retarded.

              Try a duel, charge up goo, sit near the belt/udamage and watch them constantly attempt to pick it up whilst getting a face full of goo each time.
              Fair enough, realistic is a more accurate term than dumb.

              Originally posted by udk3 View Post
              try using slomo < .7.
              Thank you for your suggestion, but that's not really how I want to play the game.

              I would be surprised a bot's aiming behavior would be impossible to change for only a certain type of weapon. Thought I suppose if was as easily done as said, it would have been done already. Not much hope for that at this point I don't think.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by azurescorch View Post
                I'd say it's harder to make them realistic than dumb. Bots, even on godlike are pretty retarded.

                Try a duel, charge up goo, sit near the belt/udamage and watch them constantly attempt to pick it up whilst getting a face full of goo each time.
                Humans are prone to doing that as well!

                If godlike bots are so retarded then lets see you beat 4 of them on say Sentinel!

                Also I'd have to say the most annoying piece of bot coding is the silly player has more then 10 skulls on greed - watch the entire other team come after you with a higher skill rating and using mostly only the enforcer and never missing a shot.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by gargorias View Post
                  Humans are prone to doing that as well!

                  If godlike bots are so retarded then lets see you beat 4 of them on say Sentinel!

                  Also I'd have to say the most annoying piece of bot coding is the silly player has more then 10 skulls on greed - watch the entire other team come after you with a higher skill rating and using mostly only the enforcer and never missing a shot.
                  LOL, those Godlike bots. The Flag/Orb might as well be an instant-kill bomb, the way they hate on you with a variety of weapons.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Gameslaya View Post
                    The difficulty is forcing the bots to miss on purpose. They are already programmed to be proficient in player tracking, to nerf them enough so that they suck with the link gun will make them even worse with regular weapons.
                    Originally posted by Sly. View Post
                    Making them dumb would make them worse with other weapons as well I think.
                    There's nothing you can do about that.
                    This is completely wrong. It's very easy for a programmer to make bots worse with a specific weapon.

                    That having been said, I have no idea why Epic hasn't fixed this by now.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by shombowhore View Post
                      This is completely wrong. It's very easy for a programmer to make bots worse with a specific weapon.

                      That having been said, I have no idea why Epic hasn't fixed this by now.
                      Well, I'm not an expert on programming or anything, so... (shrug)

                      In any case, I added "In my opinion" after my original post in case someone had evidence to prove otherwise.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by gargorias View Post
                        Humans are prone to doing that as well!

                        If godlike bots are so retarded then lets see you beat 4 of them on say Sentinel!
                        4 extremely stupid actual people could beat me on Sentinel if they were using wall hacks and aim bots

                        Ever played against a n00b who is using wall hacks and aimbotting hacks? It feels completely the same as playing against a godlike bot.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by azurescorch View Post
                          4 extremely stupid actual people could beat me on Sentinel if they were using wall hacks and aim bots

                          Ever played against a n00b who is using wall hacks and aimbotting hacks? It feels completely the same as playing against a godlike bot.
                          I've never had the misfortune to, so thank goodness.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Over the years I have developed the opinion (w/o actually going to the trouble of trying to verify it) that the bots' seeming extraordinary skill with the Alt-Link has a great deal to do with their ability and propensity to actually link with it. The procedure for linking is more difficult in UT3 than it was before...for us...but the bots know how to use it properly and effectively.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Gameslaya View Post
                              I've never had the misfortune to, so thank goodness.
                              I've never played against 4, that was just an example. I have met aim-botters with wall hax at least 5 times though and their abilities are around the same as a bot. Never missing with link, stinger and sniper. Yet they move in predictable ways and do predictable things.

                              Comment

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