Should Epic port UT3 to UDK?

[very unreal]

Where do you get that I said Epic is a bunch of amateurs?

You make it seem like its too hard for epic's developers.

Who cares if it has been two years? You act as though this is owed to you. Besides, UDK is NOT UE3.5.

You said it would take weeks of testing, so i pointed it out they had 2 years. Well since i own ut3 and udk engine is given out free, why are we not allowed to port it and release it? You act as though porting it would be terrible for ut3 players

As Henrik stated, UDK will be in constant flux, as its development is always in work.

and?

Game developers offer patches that fix problems or offer certain planned upgrades to entice folks to buy the game after its initial release. UDK is not part of that process.

that's why this thread had a vote to see if ppl would like it to be.

It isn't how "hard" the work is, it is about how many resources it will take to make whatever it is that you want from Epic to come to fruition. This isn't just an issue about game development, but also one about running a successful business.

Funny how you made it seem like its a difficulty issue in your last post, now you say its not.

[very unreal]

I think most of us know that it's not a good business decision for Epic to update UT 3 with the newer version of the engine as it probably won't increase sales enough to cover their cost in labor, much less make a profit. But we can hope for it.

before flak's post there was a slight possibility, but not anymore.

[Crotale]

Funny how you made it seem like its a difficulty issue in your last post, now you say its not.

No, you are reading too much into what I said. The fact is that you seem to think Epic can just churn out this new version in a day, when in fact, if you consider all the porting of textures, models, maps and code, they have a workload. And to do it right so it does not come back and bit them in the rear, it would take a several workers at least a few weeks to get all this down. And then we have not even gotten into any changes this new venture will or can bring to the game. But hey, you must be a game dev and a successful business owner, since you have all the answers.

before flak's post there was a slight possibility, but not anymore.

The decision was most assuredly made quite a long time ago. Just because you did not know about it did not mean the possibility existed.

You said it would take weeks of testing, so i pointed it out they had 2 years.

Epic had two years to do what? Did you NOT notice all the patches and bonus packs they handed out over that two year perdiod?

Well since i own ut3 and udk engine is given out free, why are we not allowed to port it and release it?

Legal reasons. Read the UDK and UT3 EULAs.

You act as though porting it would be terrible for ut3 players

Will you please quote me where I said that exact thing?

[Henrik]

Wrong, here's some reading for you
http://www.incrysis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=19564
the improved unreal engine is refereed to as unreal engine 3.5, gears of war 2 has it. And look at the features GOW 2 has. so it does exist.

Don't try to tell me I am wrong and then use a crysis forum to "prove" it's called Unreal Engine 3.5. The video in that thread, straight from Tim Sweeney's mouth, says Unreal Engine 3. "Some of the new features in Unreal Engine 3".. NOWHERE does it say 3.5.

http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/Devel...radeNotes.html
It obviously says there are versions of unreal engine.

Yes they do go through versioning, but I already told you there is no such thing as "3.5". They use longer build numbers, and as I said, the number is constantly going up. People only call it 3.5 for simplicity, it's not an official number. He's not going to call it point five if it isn't, and he's not going to say "build 5790" or whatever either for obvious reasons. It's only relevant mainly to developers and internally at Epic.

If other game developers such as valve could updates its game engines, why can't epic? Are you saying its too hard for them?

I suggest practicing your reading comprehension. They obviously are updating it, and again I said this is a constant process with UDK and why it would be a poor idea to try to keep UT3 up to date with it. Do you develop games professionally? I suspect not, or you would know what a pain it would be to try to do what you are suggesting. It isn't because it is not possible, it's because it's a drain on both their human resources as well as nonsensical from a financial standpoint.

There's no false hopes here, its official that they won't update. but to simply accept that this is the best ut3 could be is just ignorant. The fact is, the new features of udk can make ut3 much better. The real problem is ppl denying that the new features of udk will improve ut3.

I didn't deny it would improve UT3, what I said is there are many features that would improve it far MORE than an engine update would. Is Lightmass going to bring in thousands of players and make them stay suddenly? No. Is rippling water? No. None of these features fixes the gameplay or other usability issues, which is why there is hardly anyone playing online. Even cross platform play probably wouldn't make much of a dent at this point. The point is that the general public knows it's an old game, they know what to expect from the gameplay, and no amount of prettying it up is going to change this.

If they were to incorporate UDK features into UT3 a far wiser move would be to make it UT4, fix the rest of the broken stuff and develop a proper hook such as what UT2004 had over UT2003. But we have already known they aren't going to do that for months now, because they definitively said already they weren't doing anything further with the UT series for several years. So this poll was pointless before you even posted it. Trust me I say all this having put in a lot of myself into the series over the past 9 years. I have helped many of the features you see in the game today get to where they are, and I promoted the game to thousands of people with my gameplay lesson videos. So it isn't as if I don't care. I just try to have realistic expectations, and realize one important fact: it's a game, and there is WAY more to life... go check it out sometime.. and if you just can't be without it... heck.. Make your own UT style game with UDK if you are so desperate to see it updated.

[Henrik]

Also, to expand on what Cro said, I went through a very lengthy conversation over a month ago with Jay Wilbur, Epic's legal expert, about porting any UT game to UDK / developing one as a community member. Suffice it to say and without boring you with details, he gave me the exact legal clause that states why they can't allow anyone to do it. In laymen's terms, though it is a preventative measure to cover their own butts in case a court case ever arose as a result of it. If they didn't say no, one could make the legal argument that they forfeited ownership of the entire intellectual property.

BUT nothing is stopping anyone from developing a game LIKE unreal tournament.

[Flak]

BUT nothing is stopping anyone from developing a game LIKE unreal tournament.

Exactly.

Just a reminder folks to watch the insults. We don't need to be nasty to each other, we all want the same things basically.

[very unreal]

No, you are reading too much into what I said. The fact is that you seem to think Epic can just churn out this new version in a day, when in fact, if you consider all the porting of textures, models, maps and code, they have a workload. And to do it right so it does not come back and bit them in the rear, it would take a several workers at least a few weeks to get all this down. And then we have not even gotten into any changes this new venture will or can bring to the game. But hey, you must be a game dev and a successful business owner, since you have all the answers.

consider yourself first
if you have used the udk, you'll see there's a ut3 demo ported already. All they need to do is bring over more maps and the rest of weapons. If you think this is too hard, just explain, you seem like an expert. So you're saying only ppl who develop games and own a business can a understand a game.

The decision was most assuredly made quite a long time ago. Just because you did not know about it did not mean the possibility existed.

Unless you work for epic, you wouldn't know that for sure until now.

Epic had two years to do what? Did you NOT notice all the patches and bonus packs they handed out over that two year perdiod?

so? you tried to make it seem like epic didn't have enough time with ut3.

Will you please quote me where I said that exact thing?

Sure if you can quote me too.

You act as though this is owed to you.

[very unreal]

Don't try to tell me I am wrong and then use a crysis forum to "prove" it's called Unreal Engine 3.5. The video in that thread, straight from Tim Sweeney's mouth, says Unreal Engine 3. "Some of the new features in Unreal Engine 3".. NOWHERE does it say 3.5.

You think you're right on everything. and know more about epic then epic themselves. what engine does GOW2 run on? search on wiki. Its referred to as 3.5
http://www.unrealtechnology.com/technology.php
ppl also have claimed that unreal engine 2.5 doesn't exist, but its listed on under past versions. once unreal engine 4 is released, then 3 and 3.x will be added to its previous versions list.

Yes they do go through versioning, but I already told you there is no such thing as "3.5". They use longer build numbers, and as I said, the number is constantly going up. People only call it 3.5 for simplicity, it's not an official number. He's not going to call it point five if it isn't, and he's not going to say "build 5790" or whatever either for obvious reasons. It's only relevant mainly to developers and internally at Epic.

you claimed that there were no versions. like i said, ppl referred to the improved engine as engine 3.5.

I suggest practicing your reading comprehension. They obviously are updating it, and again I said this is a constant process with UDK and why it would be a poor idea to try to keep UT3 up to date with it. Do you develop games professionally? I suspect not, or you would know what a pain it would be to try to do what you are suggesting. It isn't because it is not possible, it's because it's a drain on both their human resources as well as nonsensical from a financial standpoint.

suggest to yourself first, i never said they are not updating it. My point is its not a poor idea for improving ut3. what does being a developer have to do with that?
are you trying to say you're professional game developer? since you act like you know it all. I know other professional game developers updating many of their game engines, if its as difficult as you described, why did they do it and are still successful?

I didn't deny it would improve UT3, what I said is there are many features that would improve it far MORE than an engine update would. Is Lightmass going to bring in thousands of players and make them stay suddenly? No. Is rippling water? No. None of these features fixes the gameplay or other usability issues, which is why there is hardly anyone playing online. Even cross platform play probably wouldn't make much of a dent at this point. The point is that the general public knows it's an old game, they know what to expect from the gameplay, and no amount of prettying it up is going to change this.

i never said there aren't other improvement that could be better than an engine update.
improved ai wouldn't help? what about performance and memory usage improvement? wouldn't destructible enhance game play? distibuted computing?
If you want other features feel free to make new thread about it.

Even cross platform play probably wouldn't make much of a dent at this point. The point is that the general public knows it's an old game, they know what to expect from the gameplay, and no amount of prettying it up is going to change this.

it will change ut3 owner's experience
if you have other ideas to improve epic games make a thread about them, this thread is about the engine and whether ut3 owner would like it or not.

If they were to incorporate UDK features into UT3 a far wiser move would be to make it UT4, fix the rest of the broken stuff and develop a proper hook such as what UT2004 had over UT2003. But we have already known they aren't going to do that for months now, because they definitively said already they weren't doing anything further with the UT series for several years. So this poll was pointless before you even posted it. Trust me I say all this having put in a lot of myself into the series over the past 9 years. I have helped many of the features you see in the game today get to where they are, and I promoted the game to thousands of people with my gameplay lesson videos.

Ever heard of unreal engine 4? it not logical to use unreal engine 3 for ut4. if you think this poll is pointless, go ahead and report it along with your replies too. so what if you played ut for 9 years. ok i believe you're also responsible for all the flaws of the ut series too.

So it isn't as if I don't care. I just try to have realistic expectations, and realize one important fact: it's a game, and there is WAY more to life... go check it out sometime..

coming from a guy that says he put a lot into ut for 9 yrs, and eagerly claiming credit for his influence of ut series and its promotion.

Make your own UT style game with UDK if you are so desperate to see it updated.

of course if i can obtain uncooked epic contents. If you hate epic updating it, well don't worry, it official that they won't

if you're going to be angry about what ppl like then stay out of their thread then.

[very unreal]

Also, to expand on what Cro said, I went through a very lengthy conversation over a month ago with Jay Wilbur, Epic's legal expert, about porting any UT game to UDK / developing one as a community member. Suffice it to say and without boring you with details, he gave me the exact legal clause that states why they can't allow anyone to do it. In laymen's terms, though it is a preventative measure to cover their own butts in case a court case ever arose as a result of it. If they didn't say no, one could make the legal argument that they forfeited ownership of the entire intellectual property.

BUT nothing is stopping anyone from developing a game LIKE unreal tournament.

what did he have to say about ut3 demo in udk?

of course anybody is allowed to create their game type, but they can't use epic content. i said that several times already.

[Henrik]

Yes I will stay out of "your" thread from now on, because even when someone tells you the truth you wouldn't listen to it. As far as "knowing more than Epic" I only use their own statements and websites as my sources, whereas you quote Crysis forums and Wikipedia. Hmm I wonder what is more reliable.

[Benfica]

BUT nothing is stopping anyone from developing a game LIKE unreal tournament.

Exactly.

very unreal, I believe that's the best that can be done. I would like to see a game with custom weapons and gametypes like XMP, Seige, ChaosUT, Bunny Track, ONS-Rpg and others. I mean, look at the custom content of all UT versions, there are tons of fantastic ideas there.