Greed - VCTF problem - Vehicle Base Camping

[Xyx]

Conduit in our own bases?... That's a short-sighted solution.

I actually tried it out using the Reverse CTF mutator.

It's... different. You have to be careful not to shoot anyone unless your team will get to pick up their skull. When both teams are careful not to give away any skulls, you will have to enter enemy territory to go get some. Dropoffs are usually small, just 1 to 3 skulls, so the Udamage never kicks in. You do not drop your skull when you suicide, so that cannot be exploited.

Not very exciting, I admit. And bots don't get it, of course.

All of a sudden it's a camper's game instead of an actual game of skill.

That's not true. It takes skill to steal skulls instead of giving them away.

[B0T0X]

Conduit in our own bases?... That's a short-sighted solution. Then when people headshot you guess what, you go pick up your own skull after you die and drop it off in your conduit no problem. All of a sudden it's a camper's game instead of an actual game of skill. All of a sudden you're hesitant to kill enemies near their base because they might capture their own skulls 2 seconds later while you're desperately trying to cross the entire map just to get to the enemy conduit.

And, it's called Greed for a reason. If you get too greedy, you're probably going to regret it.

You should have a growing feeling of anxiety/pressure when you start to get to a certain amount of skulls that forces you to run from your base for fear of being killed right next to your conduit and giving the other team an easy jackpot.

Case in point. I was on sandstorm just last night and I come into the enemy base. One guy is running around with like 40 skulls unprotected so I road rage him, jump out, pick them up, fly to his conduit, and drop them off. Sheesh, if I had that many skulls I'd be paranoid and scrambling to get across the map in the most discrete/fast way possible.

After I capture his 40-skull jackpot he says, "Good cap." and I'm thinking "Man this guy is a good sport, I'd be mad but I sure wouldn't say 'Good cap' after I made a blunder like that."

So, fast forward a few minutes. I see the same guy approaching our conduit with like 60 skulls. Again, I jump in a vehicle, kill him, steal his 3 red skulls, fly over the wall, and cap during a sandstorm.

The final score was like 130-something to 3 or something sad like that. The guy just didn't get how to play the game. He was actually a moderately skilled player and played pretty well as far as kills were concerned, but he just didn't get it. This isn't a game where you can just run into an enemy base with 100 skulls and expect to live more than 5 seconds.

I'm not claiming to be an amazing player or anything. I'm very skilled in UT2k4 but in UT3 I feel like I'm **** (...or that the aiming system is **** but that's another topic...) But, if you're getting to the point where you're running around with 60 skulls you'd better have a darned good reason for it because you should be capping more often than that. It's so careless!

The guy I played with was a really nice guy and I run into him online often enough but he seriously wasn't learning his lesson... If it doesn't work it's time to -> adapt.

In other words, if you keep losing greed over and over and over then...

You're doing it wrong.

[Xyx]

If you only dropped your own skull when you died... then you wouldn't be helping your enemies that much on a failed assault.

Or maybe you'd drop all skulls, but your enemies would only be able to pick up your own skull. Your teammates could come in and sweep up the rest. That would motivate them to keep attacking.

Or maybe it could work like CTF; you'd drop all skulls, but if your enemies try to pick up any skulls other than your own skull, the skulls would simply disappear, just like when picking up your own flag.

[Telzen]

Its called defense, just kill them first. We don't complain about a tank staying behind to guard the flag do we?

[CaptainSnarf]

If it works, don't fix it

IMO there is nothing wrong or broken about Greed.

[bambislayer99]

These are only problems if you're a newbie playing experienced players.

I jumped the greed server last night that has the lowest ping and it was all newbies... To the point that my team ended up just going around their base killing them because there was nothing better to do.

After the game I swapped back to the official epic servers and found some decent competition again.

I've never had a problem with the things the OP mentioned in matches with more experienced players.

I wasn't implying that everyone stays back at the base but even on servers with very experienced people you find someone will camp teh base - it a good tactic actually - after all, it's a guarenteed convergence point isnit it! I mean, to score, your enemy has to come to your base.

On certain maps it is a huge problem because you can park a tank on the base plate and no-one can gain access. Sure, a deemer clears the base but people camp the spawning of them too.

What if... the Red and Blue conduits were swapped? You could drop off skulls in the relative safety of your own base, but you'd have to cross the map to get some first.

I think a fundamental problem with Greed is that there is a such a steep price for failure that players become hesitant to try. In CTF, the price for failing to capture the flag is time lost. In Greed, the price for failing to drop off a boatload of skulls is handing a boatload of skulls to your enemies. You cannot win CTF by playing defensively... you just prevent your enemies from winning. But in Greed, if you defend for a long time and rack up the skulls, a single successful counterassault will instantly win you the match.

Exactly! Well put.

Perhaps have a system were if you die at the enemy base, the skulls are distributed evenly. The enemy gets half and your base team gets the other half. The drawback is that you'll have your own people camping the base to get skulls!

It's because it's the easiest way to collect skulls with little risk that's the problem.

To counter the arguement to those saying it's not a problem - then they'd have no objection to implementing a time penalty at the base then wouldn't they! i mean, if they say they don't experience people doing it then it wouldn't hurt to implement it then would it - after all, it would then catch anyone who did do it.

[B0T0X]

These are only problems if you're a newbie playing experienced players.

I jumped the greed server last night that has the lowest ping and it was all newbies... To the point that my team ended up just going around their base killing them because there was nothing better to do.

After the game I swapped back to the official epic servers and found some decent competition again.

I've never had a problem with the things the OP mentioned in matches with more experienced players.

[iki_xx]

you can kill a titan with the impact hammer, and also ,when the titan is about the smack the ground you jump, and it won't kill you.

[Xyx]

What if... the Red and Blue conduits were swapped? You could drop off skulls in the relative safety of your own base, but you'd have to cross the map to get some first.

I think a fundamental problem with Greed is that there is a such a steep price for failure that players become hesitant to try. In CTF, the price for failing to capture the flag is time lost. In Greed, the price for failing to drop off a boatload of skulls is handing a boatload of skulls to your enemies. You cannot win CTF by playing defensively... you just prevent your enemies from winning. But in Greed, if you defend for a long time and rack up the skulls, a single successful counterassault will instantly win you the match.

[phalanx]

its the same as VCTF though, its defence...
but i refuse to play titan, too much spawn camp abuse risk

[Dogger]

The problem isnt camping, its when it takes you ages to take down a tank all in vain as it respawns a few seconds later.

[bclagge]

You mean like Facing Worlds with the Titan mut? I agree, but the solution is don't play those maps with the Titan mutator.

[SilentSounds]

There are some maps where spawn camping is a serious problem, and you can't really do anything expect hope to spawn at another location.

Maybe it's just the customs ones I play. But yea, the first problem is avoidable, but then again it depends on the team.

[bclagge]

I don't see vehicle base camping as a problem. I've been playing UT3 since the day it came out. We figured out how to get around the vehicles in vCTF, and in Greed it's even less of an issue. You no longer have to get out of the base, you only have to get in. Just grab a Raptor or a Manta and go kill the camper. Remember, you don't have to cap skulls to be a benefit to your team, although it's certainly easier to do once you clear the vehicles off the flag base.

[The Demon Slick]

As you play more, you'll learn all kinds of ways around that. Jumpboots, Avrils, your teams Raptor, just to name a few! Both teams have the same vehicles.