There should be POINTS rewarded in the GREED game type for DEFENDERS

[mtv2004]

you guys might actually be right........i played this with the maps the mode came with and its much better than using vctf or spam maps.............i see your point on those maps

[Flak]

it is real easy to turn from getting your butts stomped to winning. It all depends on how "greedy" you are. "BRILLIANT"

SmokeRingHalo and I can both attest to this.

[WorldEaterZ]

Having points for defense makes little sense given the gametype. If you're on defense and kill an enemy that has collected lots of skulls and is about to score on your node, then now YOU have lots of skulls and are therefore a detriment to your team if you remain close to your node. An enemy will just kill you, take your skulls, and score. It forces you to be fluid. Now let's say you sit back for a 20 minute match and never see anybody. In that case, your team probably needed you more on the frontlines.

[RoadKillGrill]

Greed does not need defense points, the skulls from your enemies are enough of reward.

[Cenotaph]

greed only makes sense as it is, the team must "flow" together towards the goal, whereas in CTF dedicated defense can be indeed necessary, in Greed is just counter-productive.

so no points for defense. if you kill enough guys and get lots of skulls then go and deliver them

[1337_Sniper]

In CTF/VCTF, defense is a valid and necessary role that is all too often overlooked. It is important because if someone isn't guarding your flag, it won't be there when the offensive player comes back with the opponents flag.

Although I do agree, there really isn't a need for a dedicated defensive player as long as this player doesn't collect any skulls. In this case, they really help the team a little bit. For the defensive player to really help the team, they need to help collect skulls then switch to offensive/support for the teammate carrying the larger number of skulls.

Greed has introduced a whole new world of strategy to the UT universe, and I have to say I am hooked.

To phrase what I heard on vent last night while playing it with 11 other people, it is real easy to turn from getting your butts stomped to winning. It all depends on how "greedy" you are. "BRILLIANT"

[plugh]

I love the kamikaze style gameplay in greed, it's great, I don't care about defenders getting points, stop camping and get stuck in!

[Shino]

Speaking for CTF(in which you commented about)

I've always said defense only should not be considered a true position.

The point of the gametype is to Capture the enemys flag while keeping your flag in base.
Killing three people charging your base makes more sense then going on return trying to kill one person as two others are shooting you. when you die defending you have a second chance at killing the flag runner while they're leaving your base,as oppose being on return trying to get in their base without diying, killing the flag runner, tran'ing to the flag all before their cover kills you.

People are constantly dying and respawning next to the base so anyone can fill that role when needed.

Like you said NEXT to the base, not all spawns points are in the base.
If you spawn after a FC takes your flag you wouldn't know which way to look since their was no one in the base telling his route.
And if a your flag runner was the player that respawn sending him to try to kill a FC with their cover is shooting him isn't smart since a lot of flag carriers can't frag, so sending him to fight a 3 vs 1 would useless when you have players that are used to fighting multiple people at once.

D-only players are just dead weight that make the offensive front one man weaker, so really you shouldn't be appreciative of and defensive for this guy.

But without that defensive man, when you got the flag back to base your flag would never be there.

Perhaps the most ironic thing is that when D-only players are MOST needed (when a guy is about to cap a flag or some guy with 50 skulls is about to cap) they usually prove to be the most useless. They fail to do their supposed duty of defense and the guy gets through.

you can't stop every run, just like as a flag runner you can't capture on every flag touch.The game would never end.

But this is just my opinion...

[d3tox]

Botox and Halo are right.

In this game type a player who plays defense exclusively is likely to be a liability to his own team, as we can agree that most players cant get a whole match in without dying. If you are playing D the whole time, everytime you die there's another skull in your own base just waiting to be cashed in by the other team. If you've killed a few attackers and have the skulls to show for it, then sitting in your base and playing D is stupidity by this same rationale.

I really think this game type is a lot of fun, it's a wonderful blend of ctf and tdm, and flows like I thought bombing run should have in the 2k3/2k4 games.

I'd love to see servers running this on a time limit rather than a scoring cap though imo...

[SmokeRingHalo]

It's a team game. In teams, different players have different roles, some are better at attacking and some better at defending. Yes the mechanics of the gametype forces everyone to attack, cause whether they like it or not they would end up collecting skulls. The thing is that UT3 does not care much about "roles" once you're playing, wich in my humble opinion, is bad

It is a team game yes, but its NOT class based. There is no Heavy, no scout, etc. which usually dictates your role in those type of games. The amount of skulls you have should not only tell you when it's time to go offense, but should also tell you when to start moving away from your own goal because you've become a liability. One of my best Greed moments so far was when I killed someone (an Epic admin here) who was hoarding 112 skulls very near their teams goal on Rails. I got the kill grabbed enough for the win and capped. At some point you've got to try and go offense to score your defensive kills, unless you're just to greedy.:P
The only thing, and Botox touched on it earlier, is that sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing on the team. Proper voice communication would make this gametype much better.

[H3i53nb3rg]

I don't see much merit in giving additional points for defence based gameplay in the greed gametype. The reason being that it would lead to campy and boring matches where people just stay at their base. Greed is intended to be a somewhat refreshing, and certainly new, gametype. The current system encourages attacking play which is a nice change from what you get in most stock gametypes.

[phalanx]

well the key thing is
defence you can land a heavy pile of skulls which in turn lands you with an amp allowing you an advantage when attacking yourself. why waste that, i played greed back in beta 2v1 against with bots thrown in on kargo with titans on.. i still capped 72 skulls even though i was at a disadvantage... could have won it if bot didnt pull of expert tank shots >.<

[Mighty Rabbit]

I agree with BOTOX

GREED !! the title says it all!!! > Just think of it..

[B0T0X]

The moment you start rewarding people for camping is probably the same moment that many of the skilled players stop playing UT. It'd be nice if we could all have nice little e-cookies for our different roles but at the end of the day a D-only player is a detriment to a team and no one deserves a trophy for being incapable of adapting.

[mtv2004]

It's a team game. In teams, different players have different roles, some are better at attacking and some better at defending. Yes the mechanics of the gametype forces everyone to attack, cause whether they like it or not they would end up collecting skulls. The thing is that UT3 does not care much about "roles" once you're playing, wich in my humble opinion, is bad

exactly, that's the basic concept of why i say there should be point rewarding. Everyone plays different roles for the "team". To get nothing but "satisfaction" is kind of stupid when all the other game modes get credit for kills ect