There should be POINTS rewarded in the GREED game type for DEFENDERS

[mtv2004]

not for the team scoring but individual scores...... someone can play defense the whole map and zero credit for it .........there needs to be a fix for this fast..........if not, ppl are just going to race and score and forget defensive play

like points for kills and last minute saves.....anyone agree?

[SmokeRingHalo]

Disagree. The nature of the game makes it impractical to solely play defensively or offensively the entire match. If you are successfully defending then you are going to collect many dropped skulls. At some point (determined by you and your teams greed factor) you are going to have to make an attempt to score those collected points by switching to offense. By the same token it doesn't make much sense for guys with only 1 skull making offensive runs over and over (unless they are helping to escort the skull motherload) Skulls collected should dictate the role you play on your team.

[B0T0X]

Disagree. The nature of the game makes it impractical to solely play defensively or offensively the entire match. If you are successfully defending then you are going to collect many dropped skulls. At some point (determined by you and your teams greed factor) you are going to have to make an attempt to score those collected points by switching to offense. By the same token it doesn't make much sense for guys with only 1 skull making offensive runs over and over (unless they are helping to escort the skull motherload) Skulls collected should dictate the role you play on your team.

I totally agree having won every Greed game I've played so far and already getting the 500 skulls achievement lol. This game is VERY much like the CTF mindset. It's about true teamwork. You have to flow fluidly between offense, defense, and support to help your team win, which is the true goal.

The problem I've found is not that people avoid defense, but that they default to it, just like in CTF... Lame. I'm not saying everyone does, but it is too prevalent and will probably always be because defense feels "safe".

My general game goes something like this...
- Charge the enemy and kill if I can
- Cap a few skulls just to make 'em uneasy
- Wrecklessly charge and kill/die over and over until some dude has tons of skulls
- Kill that guy
- Sneak around and hoverboard or run straight into their base and cap them all.

At this point we normally have 50-70 skulls capped. Sometimes the other team gets desperate.

A strategy that I've had minimal success with (because... well... some gamers aren't the brightest) is when I tell my team "I'm going Titan mid-map, I'll cover you all the way into their base."

Then they either ignore me altogether or just stay mid-map like idiots waiting for people to come kill me instead of capping the skulls to win the game.

Once or twice though, It's been beautiful. I've got point charging ahead as a titan blowing enemy after enemy to smithereens while my teammates gather the skulls behind me and follow me as I make a window.

The problem with your complaint is based on a faulty assumption: that your score matters. Your score doesn't matter. Ultimately, you are unimportant. This is a team game with the sole goal of getting to 100 skulls first. If you're in a 5v5 match and you score 99 skulls all by yourself and each of your enemies scores 20 and they win then you still lose. Outscoring them is irrelevant and I wish everyone would just get this through their heads in CTF and Greed and every other team match. It's about teamwork, not heroism.

The bane of my existence was in UT2k4 where I'd join CTF servers only to find a bunch of retards going at it deathmatch style, just totally ignoring the point of the game and trying to rack up their kill counts. I have the same feelings for people who just amble about in greed or jump in vehicles to go joyriding instead of playing with the mindset of helping the team win.

My point is this: People obsessed with getting the most kills at the expense of their team's victory are too selfish to be playing CTF or Greed and should stick to gametypes like Deathmatch and Betrayal. I'm not saying this is you, but I do think a lot of people fall into this category.

/rant

[mtv2004]

I disagree..... completely

example: someone was playing Kargo map for Greed and was in the tank keeping ppl from entering the team's base the whole map, but got 0 points for keeping potential scorers from getting in. That too me is stupid. He should have gotten something for keeping the base clean............0 points the entire match is stupid. Even in CTF, DM, WAR ect.....you get individual points............only in greed a player gets 0

[B0T0X]

I disagree..... completely

example: someone was playing Kargo map for Greed and was in the tank keeping ppl from entering the team's base the whole map, but got 0 points for keeping potential scorers from getting in. That too me is stupid. He should have gotten something for keeping the base clean............0 points the entire match is stupid. Even in CTF, DM, WAR ect.....you get individual points............only in greed a player gets 0

He gets the satisfaction of knowing he helped his team win. The oddest thing about your indignation with his apparent lack of award is that he CHOSE that role. He was fine with it or he wouldn't have done it, and yet you're frustrated by it.

I've always said defense only should not be considered a true position. Offense and Support are the roles that win games, with occasional defense as needed. No good team is benefitted by a D-only player. People are constantly dying and respawning next to the base so anyone can fill that role when needed. D-only players are just dead weight that make the offensive front one man weaker, so really you shouldn't be appreciative of and defensive for this guy. Perhaps the most ironic thing is that when D-only players are MOST needed (when a guy is about to cap a flag or some guy with 50 skulls is about to cap) they usually prove to be the most useless. They fail to do their supposed duty of defense and the guy gets through. I've never been able to rely on a D-only player because by definition their lame playing style prevents them from gaining the necessary skills to actually create an effective defense. 95% of D-only players I've encountered are Captain Noobcake Extraordinaire and the other 5% are just inflexible and annoying - still a detriment to the team despite their accuracy - and a detriment to others' enjoyment of the game and teamwork since they're sitting in the base doing nothing when they could be useful elseware.

Also, the fact that this guy in the tank managed to stay alive for that long is rediculous and evidence supporting the idea that everyone playing in said match was inexperienced. In most of my games tanks and darkwalkers are constantly being destroyed. Heck, that's the great thing about the titan mutator. You can take out tanks, darkwalkers, other Titans... all kinds of **** as a Titan.

If anything someone deserves to be kicked for playing D-only, not given a cookie.

[Oldskool0482]

in Kargo its quite easy to stay alive, even with the titans, in kargo usually someone has tank then a group will sit in front of the 2 entrances with a hellbender/scrop and run D from there, its quite easy to keep the tank up.

[Ignotium]

Disagree. The nature of the game makes it impractical to solely play defensively or offensively the entire match. If you are successfully defending then you are going to collect many dropped skulls. At some point (determined by you and your teams greed factor) you are going to have to make an attempt to score those collected points by switching to offense. By the same token it doesn't make much sense for guys with only 1 skull making offensive runs over and over (unless they are helping to escort the skull motherload) Skulls collected should dictate the role you play on your team.

It's a team game. In teams, different players have different roles, some are better at attacking and some better at defending. Yes the mechanics of the gametype forces everyone to attack, cause whether they like it or not they would end up collecting skulls. The thing is that UT3 does not care much about "roles" once you're playing, wich in my humble opinion, is bad

[mtv2004]

It's a team game. In teams, different players have different roles, some are better at attacking and some better at defending. Yes the mechanics of the gametype forces everyone to attack, cause whether they like it or not they would end up collecting skulls. The thing is that UT3 does not care much about "roles" once you're playing, wich in my humble opinion, is bad

exactly, that's the basic concept of why i say there should be point rewarding. Everyone plays different roles for the "team". To get nothing but "satisfaction" is kind of stupid when all the other game modes get credit for kills ect

[B0T0X]

The moment you start rewarding people for camping is probably the same moment that many of the skilled players stop playing UT. It'd be nice if we could all have nice little e-cookies for our different roles but at the end of the day a D-only player is a detriment to a team and no one deserves a trophy for being incapable of adapting.

[Mighty Rabbit]

I agree with BOTOX

GREED !! the title says it all!!! > Just think of it..

[phalanx]

well the key thing is
defence you can land a heavy pile of skulls which in turn lands you with an amp allowing you an advantage when attacking yourself. why waste that, i played greed back in beta 2v1 against with bots thrown in on kargo with titans on.. i still capped 72 skulls even though i was at a disadvantage... could have won it if bot didnt pull of expert tank shots >.<

[H3i53nb3rg]

I don't see much merit in giving additional points for defence based gameplay in the greed gametype. The reason being that it would lead to campy and boring matches where people just stay at their base. Greed is intended to be a somewhat refreshing, and certainly new, gametype. The current system encourages attacking play which is a nice change from what you get in most stock gametypes.

[SmokeRingHalo]

It's a team game. In teams, different players have different roles, some are better at attacking and some better at defending. Yes the mechanics of the gametype forces everyone to attack, cause whether they like it or not they would end up collecting skulls. The thing is that UT3 does not care much about "roles" once you're playing, wich in my humble opinion, is bad

It is a team game yes, but its NOT class based. There is no Heavy, no scout, etc. which usually dictates your role in those type of games. The amount of skulls you have should not only tell you when it's time to go offense, but should also tell you when to start moving away from your own goal because you've become a liability. One of my best Greed moments so far was when I killed someone (an Epic admin here) who was hoarding 112 skulls very near their teams goal on Rails. I got the kill grabbed enough for the win and capped. At some point you've got to try and go offense to score your defensive kills, unless you're just to greedy.:P
The only thing, and Botox touched on it earlier, is that sometimes the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing on the team. Proper voice communication would make this gametype much better.

[d3tox]

Botox and Halo are right.

In this game type a player who plays defense exclusively is likely to be a liability to his own team, as we can agree that most players cant get a whole match in without dying. If you are playing D the whole time, everytime you die there's another skull in your own base just waiting to be cashed in by the other team. If you've killed a few attackers and have the skulls to show for it, then sitting in your base and playing D is stupidity by this same rationale.

I really think this game type is a lot of fun, it's a wonderful blend of ctf and tdm, and flows like I thought bombing run should have in the 2k3/2k4 games.

I'd love to see servers running this on a time limit rather than a scoring cap though imo...

[Shino]

Speaking for CTF(in which you commented about)

I've always said defense only should not be considered a true position.

The point of the gametype is to Capture the enemys flag while keeping your flag in base.
Killing three people charging your base makes more sense then going on return trying to kill one person as two others are shooting you. when you die defending you have a second chance at killing the flag runner while they're leaving your base,as oppose being on return trying to get in their base without diying, killing the flag runner, tran'ing to the flag all before their cover kills you.

People are constantly dying and respawning next to the base so anyone can fill that role when needed.

Like you said NEXT to the base, not all spawns points are in the base.
If you spawn after a FC takes your flag you wouldn't know which way to look since their was no one in the base telling his route.
And if a your flag runner was the player that respawn sending him to try to kill a FC with their cover is shooting him isn't smart since a lot of flag carriers can't frag, so sending him to fight a 3 vs 1 would useless when you have players that are used to fighting multiple people at once.

D-only players are just dead weight that make the offensive front one man weaker, so really you shouldn't be appreciative of and defensive for this guy.

But without that defensive man, when you got the flag back to base your flag would never be there.

Perhaps the most ironic thing is that when D-only players are MOST needed (when a guy is about to cap a flag or some guy with 50 skulls is about to cap) they usually prove to be the most useless. They fail to do their supposed duty of defense and the guy gets through.

you can't stop every run, just like as a flag runner you can't capture on every flag touch.The game would never end.

But this is just my opinion...