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Problems with FPS games and why UT3 disappointed me.

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    #31
    I disagree totally(but this applies to Warfare.)

    What UT2004 had was space, cover, and time for tactics.

    UT3 is appealing to the "in your face demographic." But gaming has become more sophisticated.

    What UT4 needs is
    -Dynamic maps. You can't stand in the perfect spot, because the building might have moved a foot to the left or right, or rotated 2-3 degrees, so it won't be quite the same and you cannot rely on learned behaviour.

    -Revertion to the scisor papers stone dynamic of ut2004 vehichles, which has diminished in UT3.

    -Space and time to enjoy the game and to mess around a bit for Warfare - it is too fast paced right now.

    -More blatant randomness - so that you can have "what happened there" events.

    My biggest criticism is that UT3 appeals to the more control freak element in gaming, that want absolute precision and predictability. What I want is more random moments of death and destruction - so that you cannot control your gaming environment.

    The real problem is that Deathmatch is all about controlling the ful lenvironment. Warfare at it's best should be about outwitting your opponents.

    To outwit, the game has to have time to allow strategy. At the moment it's all about tactics.

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      #32
      Well,I'm seeing a lot of "shouldn't be more powerful" comments. This is the mentality that I'm talking about. They're basically saying weapon A shouldn't be as good as weapon B. In other words,rocket launchers should beat everything. And I hate the idea of a weapon being "just plain better" than another. That concept is the cancer killing FPS games,reducing matches to just finding the "best" weapon and controlling it. It's one thing to be better with one weapon over another,but it's another to have a weapon be better than another.

      I prefer the minigun to the shock rifle. In UT1,that's fine,they just have different play styles,but you can kill just as quickly with either. In UT3,this is a problem as the minigun just can't compete with the shock rifle for damage. In a straight up fight,I'll be dead long before my opponent,all based on weapon damage.

      In other words,you're not advocating "balance",you're advocating the elimination of a play style. How can I lay down suppressive fire if there's no reason for the enemy to fear the bullets I'm firing? What point does the minigun serve if it's not being used because people realize it's just useless? Why not just drop it like they did the Ripper/Razorjack and chainsaw?

      The elimination of choice is the elimination of players. If they can't play their way,they just won't play. If a guy with weapon A doesn't see the same returns as the player with weapon B,then the player has a choice. He can learn to play the game by it's rules or he can go play a different game. While the second choice sounds great to elitists,it's not good for business. The thing about making a successful game is that many people WANT to play it. You don't get that with games where you have to do things differently from what you like.

      To sum it up simply,modern gaming has reached a point where player customization is simple and easy. Games that aren't open to the community,don't allow people to play their way,and don't evolve are destined to fail. Sequels should pack more features and more alternatives,not less.

      Tailsnake: First off,I don't believe those numbers are right. But lets say they were. Notice a problem there? The lowering of damage doesn't hurt the "one big hit" style weapons that much. Each can easily kill a player with 100 health. But what about the weapons that hit multiple times? Let's do the math! 14 damage per shot will require 8 shots to kill someone with 100 health. Right now I can tell you that's bull as I've pounded newly spawned enemies for at least 10 hits and they still weren't dead. No health packs either. UT1's 15-21 means 5-7 hits to kill a 100 health enemy. Which seems more true. Which probably means there's a minimum-maximum damage style in UT3 you're not talking about.

      Bersy: Apparently,you don't grasp how entertainment works. People don't *have* to play your game. They have to *want* to play your game. If they don't *want* to,then *you* loose money. Which means when someone puts forth a well thought out criticism,you should listen to them over the "it's made by this great company who can do no wrong" fan boys like you. Cause you'll buy anything they make. I won't. So to increase the sales,they have to appeal to people like me. In other words,they need more people to buy the game besides you and the "true fans".

      Grogovich: Here's a better idea. How about I go buy someone else's game,give them my money,and play that? I'm sure Epic doesn't mind losing money. What with sales in the toilet and all. Company loyalty rarely results in companies doing what you want. It usually results in them taking advantage of said loyalty to get as much money out of you as they can with as little effort as possible. Just putting the UT title on a game is probably enough to pull in people like you. Odds are,they've already written UT3 off as a loss and the titan pack is just testing to see if different game mechanics prove popular.

      Well,I've said all I care to say on the matter. Epic can learn and adapt or let the series die. It's really up to them.

      Comment


        #33
        In the nicest way possible, you sound like an utter n00b. Having a game that is skill-based is the whole point of Unreal Tournament. You should go play Halo, then you can shoot a rocket launcher 20 feet from somebody and you will still get a kill.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Merlynn View Post
          Tailsnake: First off,I don't believe those numbers are right. But lets say they were. Notice a problem there? The lowering of damage doesn't hurt the "one big hit" style weapons that much. Each can easily kill a player with 100 health. But what about the weapons that hit multiple times? Let's do the math! 14 damage per shot will require 8 shots to kill someone with 100 health. Right now I can tell you that's bull as I've pounded newly spawned enemies for at least 10 hits and they still weren't dead. No health packs either. UT1's 15-21 means 5-7 hits to kill a 100 health enemy. Which seems more true. Which probably means there's a minimum-maximum damage style in UT3 you're not talking about.
          I can vouch for the UT3 number personally (You can see the exact damage numbers in the games code, so I know those are true), you can get the show damage mutator from the forums here and it'll come up with the exact same numbers, and the source I used for the UT99 numbers has the exact same numbers for UT3 (that's 3 independent sources all giving exactly the same info, one of which is the games code). I got the UT99 numbers from BeyondUnreal, and you yourself said those number looked accurate.

          Anyway, if it's taking you 10+ shots to kill a newly spawned opponent with the stinger, then you're missing some shots. The UT3 hitbox is a bit smaller than previous games, and that might be why you're having a bit more trouble with it.

          Comment


            #35
            Nope,I count blood sprays,not shots taken. I get 4 here,3 there,2 more over here,and they're not dead. No pick ups.

            Comment


              #36
              From the UTWeap_Stinger.uc file in the games source code

              Code:
              defaultproperties
              {
              	WeaponColor=(R=255,G=255,B=0,A=255)
              	PlayerViewOffset=(X=0,Y=2.0,Z=0.0)
              
              	// Muzzle Flashes
              
              	Begin Object Class=ParticleSystemComponent Name=MuzzleFlashComponent
              		bAutoActivate=FALSE
              		Template=particleSystem'WP_Stinger.Particles.P_Stinger_MF_Primary'
              		DepthPriorityGroup=SDPG_Foreground
              		SecondsBeforeInactive=1.0f
              	End Object
              	PrimaryMuzzleFlashPSC=MuzzleFlashComponent
              
              	// Weapon SkeletalMesh / Anims
              
              	Begin Object class=AnimNodeSequence Name=MeshSequenceA
              	End Object
              
              	Begin Object Name=FirstPersonMesh
              		SkeletalMesh=SkeletalMesh'WP_Stinger.Mesh.SK_WP_Stinger_1P'
              		AnimSets(0)=AnimSet'WP_Stinger.Anims.K_WP_Stinger_1P_Base'
              		Animations=MeshSequenceA
              		Translation=(X=0.0,Y=0.0,Z=0.0)
              		Scale=1.0
              		FOV=65
              	End Object
              	AttachmentClass=class'UTAttachment_Stinger'
              
              	// Pickup staticmesh
              	Begin Object Name=PickupMesh
              		SkeletalMesh=SkeletalMesh'WP_Stinger.Mesh.SK_WP_Stinger_3P_Mid'
              	End Object
              
              	EffectSockets=(MuzzleFlashSocket,MuzzleFlashSocket)
              
              	FiringStatesArray(0)=WeaponWindUp
              	WeaponFireTypes(0)=EWFT_InstantHit
              	FireInterval(0)=+0.1
              	WarmupShots(0)=5
              	WindDownTime(0)=0.27
              	Spread(0)=0.0675
              	InstantHitDamage(0)=14
              	InstantHitDamageTypes(0)=class'UTDmgType_StingerBullet'
              	ShotCost(1)=2
              
              	FiringStatesArray(1)=WeaponFiring
              	WeaponFireTypes(1)=EWFT_Projectile
              	WeaponProjectiles(1)=class'UTProj_StingerShard'
              	WarmupShots(1)=1
              	FireInterval(1)=+0.28
              	WindDownTime(1)=0.33
              
              	FireOffset=(X=19,Y=10,Z=-10)
              The important part there is where it says "InstantHitDamage(0)=14" that's the stingers damage, that's the value you change if you want a more damaging stinger as a mutator, that's the value the game uses when assigning the damage the stinger has done. Either your game has somehow had that value changed, or you're wrong about the stinger's damage.

              Comment


                #37
                Get a frickin life Merlyn and just stick to UT99 :P

                1 word. ADAPT. If you like UT99 so much, keep playing it. No one's asking you to play UT3. Don't go around saying what UT3 should be / should have been.

                Lets just take the Flak vs Minigun scenario. We know that the Flak definitely is a 1 hit KO weapon at near range. Far range means that the Flak has a smaller chance of hiting its target. So to say, the Flak Gun works like a shotgun(near = good, far = bad). Coming to the Minigun, incase you hadn't noticed, you can get similar accuracy whether you're far or near. But its weakness is its multiple hits to kill. Now, each weapon has its pros and cons. You've to learn to adapt. If you're so obsessed with having easy kills, just enable the Instagib mutator.

                And by the way, the fact that these "hindrances" are in place in many FPSes is because of one reason, the change in mindset of the average gamer. Now tell me, if you'd NEVER played UT99 or UT2k4, would you be complaining the same way about UT3? No. People want variety. If you're going to make every weapon similar to each other, no one's gonna give a s**t about the game.

                EDIT: Do you play against bots only? You seriously sound like a person who's tried UT3 against bots only. I have to say the bots arent very well done, stick to the online multiplayer to get a realistic feel of the game.

                Comment


                  #38
                  The damages posted look accurate, I can usually tell the heath of an opponent based on how many times I've hit them. The red crosshair is a good indicator of valid hits combined with the screams.

                  The guns hurt allot in UT3, you are obviously doing something wrong to not realize this. The guns are balanced in UT3, all can kill equally as well as long as used in the proper conditions. Do not snipe with a mini and whine about the balance.

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