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Hm, why is there no FOV over 100?

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    #76
    On what algorithm do you base these numbers? The only FOV that does not cause fishbowling (or inverse fishbowling) is the angle from your eyes to the sides of your monitor. So unless your screen is closer to you than half its width, a FOV of 90 is unnatural already.

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      #77
      Code:
      ((2 * atan(((16 / 10) / (4 / 3)) * tan(((90 * pi) / 180) / 2))) * 180) / pi = 100.388858
                  |_______|   |_____|         |__|                                 |__________|
                      |          |             |                                        |
           Target AR -+          |             +- Original FOV           Corrected FOV -+
                                 |
                    Original AR -+

      These are simply based on the default FOV of 90 for 4:3.

      This doesn't necessarily have to do with how close or far you sit from the screen. It has more to do with what FOV is required to have the height of the screen, in widescreen, equal to the height of 4:3. I.E. if the game uses 90 for 4:3, and 90 for 16:10 and the top and bottom are cropped off of the 16:10 view, you would need to adjust the FOV to 100.388858 to gain back what was cropped off.

      It gets trickier when you take into account that there is a horizontal and vertical FOV. Certain games, like Call of Duty 4, have the FOV behave as the vertical FOV. You combine this with the aspect ratio of the screen and you get a proper horizontal FOV.

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        #78
        What does your screen ratio have to do with your FOV? The screen is a window into the game world. The only thing that matters is that the FOV matches up with the angle between your eyes and the sides of the screen so that you get a natural projection from where you are sitting. Trying to calculate FOV based on screen ratio is like saying your car window needs FOV 130 because it's 5:2.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Xyx View Post
          What does your screen ratio have to do with your FOV?
          I've tried convincing them this fact a while ago but they don't listen. A 110" 4:3 should only require 90 degrees ALLWAYS, while a 10" 16:9 NEEDS 108 fov "cus its wider".

          I do agree the FOV needs to be increased but its not a widescreen issue, its a preference issue.

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            #80
            Originally posted by RoadKillGrill View Post
            Originally posted by Xyx View Post
            What does your screen ratio have to do with your FOV?
            I've tried convincing them this fact a while ago but they don't listen. A 110" 4:3 should only require 90 degrees ALLWAYS, while a 10" 16:9 NEEDS 108 fov "cus its wider".
            Screen ratio affects vertical FOV in Epic's implementation, so the numbers Dopefish listed are the horizontal FOV values that are required to satisfy a constant vertical FOV (relative to the default of 90.)

            I didn't check the math, but if you understand how Epic has implemented FOV, you should understand that screen ratio is definitely a factor.

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              #81
              Originally posted by Xyx View Post
              What does your screen ratio have to do with your FOV? The screen is a window into the game world. The only thing that matters is that the FOV matches up with the angle between your eyes and the sides of the screen so that you get a natural projection from where you are sitting. Trying to calculate FOV based on screen ratio is like saying your car window needs FOV 130 because it's 5:2.
              Okay. Let's take your window example...

              Let's say you're sitting 60cm from the window and looking out of it.

              The window is 96cm x 72cm.

              Now let's extend that window to 128cm x 72cm. You're still sitting the same distance.

              Do you see suddenly see more horizontal area out of the window because it was made wider?

              You would.


              However, UT3 does not treat your wider view like this.


              UT3 will cut the top and bottom off to match the horizontal view, so it would be like looking out of a 96cm x 54cm window, at the same 60cm distance, instead.

              It's like taking your chair and moving it back further from the window.

              That would be like telling someone "If you own a 4:3 LCD and you're looking to replace it with a widescreen LCD, you're going to want to place it further back on your desk than you had your old LCD."


              So since UT3 will crop the top and bottom off, while still sitting at the same distance, the way you adjust for this is by adjusting the in-game FOV. You shift the camera backwards so that the "window" is back to it's extended 128cm x 72cm view.



              You want the FOV you control in game to be based around the vertical FOV, and the horizontal FOV should be calculated based off of the vertical FOV specified and the aspect ratio of the game's resolution.

              This way setting a FOV to 90 would make the vertical viewing area the same for 5:4, 4:3, 16:10, 15:9, 16:9, etc.

              This is how Call of Duty 4, Call of Duty: World at War, and other games that have good widescreen support behave.



              The whole point of this is that people don't go out and buy a widescreen monitor to see less. The don't go out and buy a widescreen monitor and place it further back on their desk. They're going to buy it, place it the same distance as their old monitor, and expect a wider view.

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                #82
                I get that the width of the screen factors into the proper FOV, but you can't just throw out a formula that calculates FOV based on aspect ratio. FOV depends on distance to the screen and viewing angle to the edges of the screen (either the left and right edge or the top and bottom edge depending on the game engine's implementation).

                If you were to buy a screen that was twice as big, and place it at the same distance you had your old screen, you would need a bigger FOV, right? Even though the aspect ratio remains the same.

                All that formula does is say "if you have widescreen and you use FOV X in Call of Duty you should use FOV Y in Unreal because it bases FOV on height instead of width". And that is assuming you're already using the correct FOV for the size and distance of your screen in Call of Duty. It does not say "this is the right FOV for you".

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                  #83
                  You must have missed my post where it's based on the default FOV of 90 for 4:3, or you just didn't read it at all.

                  I never said that it was the end-all-be-all of FOV corrections. The game uses a FOV of 90 for 4:3. If you want the same vertical viewing area for 16:10, then use 100.388858. That's all the algorithm is for. If you want your vertical area to match that of 4:3, then that is the algorithm you use. That's all I stated even from the beginning (Even on my initial post on page 7 I stated, "Assuming the default FOV is 90, and it's intended for 4:3, these would be the correct FOV values for various aspect ratios:").

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                    #84
                    Originally posted by Dopefish View Post
                    You must have missed my post where it's based on the default FOV of 90 for 4:3, or you just didn't read it at all.

                    I never said that it was the end-all-be-all of FOV corrections. The game uses a FOV of 90 for 4:3. If you want the same vertical viewing area for 16:10, then use 100.388858. That's all the algorithm is for. If you want your vertical area to match that of 4:3, then that is the algorithm you use. That's all I stated even from the beginning (Even on my initial post on page 7 I stated, "Assuming the default FOV is 90, and it's intended for 4:3, these would be the correct FOV values for various aspect ratios:").
                    But the problem is that you are insisting that widescreen players should have the same vertical viewing area, and then see more horizontally! The problem with your "correction" is that you are only happy and consider correct a gameplay advantage.

                    Have you considered a mid term? According to your example, with fov 95, you would get a bit more horizontally and vertically. And then you could get somewhere, you would not face opposition because it would be fair.

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                      #85
                      Or to propose the opposite point of view, us 'widescreen' users actually bought 'vertically challenged' monitors and should see less, same width but less height.

                      People need to stop insisting their point of view (forgive the pun) is the 'right' one.

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                        #86
                        Originally posted by Benfica View Post
                        But the problem is that you are insisting that widescreen players should have the same vertical viewing area, and then see more horizontally!
                        But that's the whole purpose of widescreen! To see more on the sides!

                        Ever watch a movie that says "this film has been formatted to fit your screen" ? It's because the sides got chopped of to make it fit a 4:3 screen. You get a widescreen TV to watch the film without the sides chopped off.

                        4:3 isn't the original or true aspect ratio; 2.39:1 is. Anything less, by definition, has had the sides chopped off to fit the screen. Even 16:9 has had the sides chopped off to some extent.

                        In all cases, the vertical range is always constant, with the horizontal being altered. That's how it's done. It's not a matter of opinion.

                        But for some reason, the people at Epic deciced to do it wrong. Not different; WRONG.

                        We simply want it done correctly (or at least a setting so we can fix it ourselves - a FOV greater than 100) so that widescreen users can restore the image that has been removed.

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                          #87
                          jacobi289, fov limit isn't even the problem, I really don't care. Screw it, I even support your petition even having a wierd 4:3 + 4:5 setup: set max fov to 110 like it was on UT2004, or even higher. I'm clearly against limiting other people when it doesn't affect me or doesn't matter much. I know how frustrating this can be.

                          But my point is: you have not been and will not be successful because you are asking to see more, using the argument that it's unfair to see less. You just want for you the advantage that you complain about. Make a point about an "half-correction" that evens the game for both formats and you may get what you want

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                            #88
                            Originally posted by jacobi289 View Post
                            ...
                            Ever watch a movie that says "this film has been formatted to fit your screen" ? It's because the sides got chopped of to make it fit a 4:3 screen. .
                            Movies are made wider to begin with. The games are NOT. So there is not RIGHT or WRONG.

                            By your analogy with movies since they are wide to begin with and standard TVs were cropped. .. then ...
                            Games being originally standard TV proportions, widescreens should have the top or bottom chopped to fit.

                            Stop thinking you are right and Epic is wrong when such things are opinion not fact.

                            Most people thought the world was flat, it didn't make it a fact.

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                              #89
                              Nobody cares about the fact that you see more with widescreen. There is hardly any advantages to having the extra sides. It's just to eliminate the awkward feeling of being extremely zoomed in and add peripheral.

                              And it should extend horizontally, anyway. We don't go out and buy widescreen monitors and call them "shortscreens." "Yeah, I want to purchase a shortscreen monitor. I was thinking that I could see the sides fine, but I really don't want to see anything on the top or bottom, so I just want to cut those off."

                              Even Windows scales horizontally when you set a widescreen resolution. It doesn't chop the top or bottom off.

                              It's simple, they should be basing the horizontal FOV off of a constant vertical FOV, and aspect ratio. This would keep the vertical area lined up and consistent, and extend horizontally. After that, if you want to adjust the FOV to compensate for monitor placement, etc., then you can do so, since you will be adjusting the vertical FOV, and the horizontal FOV will adjust accordingly based on the aspect-ratio.

                              Basically, adjusting the FOV to compensate for monitor placement is a separate factor on its own. You can still adjust for that. But the FOV should be based on the vertical FOV so that the horizontal is correct. Otherwise, you'll always need to overcompensate the FOV, and detail is still cut off from the top and bottom (like the weapon).

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Dopefish View Post
                                Nobody cares about the fact that you see more with widescreen. There is hardly any advantages to having the extra sides.
                                FAQ from your forum: http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/wiki/index.php/FAQ
                                Hopefully from this, it's evident that 5:4 is actually a disadvantage when playing games, since it narrows the view, while the later images show how widescreen provides a more natural viewing area.
                                Then from the very beginning of this thread, the reason why it started:
                                Rancur3p1c: This gives people with 4:3 screens an advantage.
                                Crotale: How does it give 4:3 screens an advantage?
                                Rancur3p1c: Yes. You have approx 35% more vertical viewing range than widescreen gamers ... we're all supposed to have the same vertical view, with wide screen people simply having a wider view.


                                Originally posted by Dopefish
                                It's just to eliminate the awkward feeling of being extremely zoomed in and add peripheral.
                                I see. 3 screenshots then, 2 from your forum.
                                Widescreengamingforum 16:9
                                [shot]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/screens/unreal3_wide.jpg[/shot]
                                UT3 normal 16:9
                                [shot]http://turtlegt.planetaclix.pt/ut3/ws2.jpg[/shot]
                                Widescreengamingforum 4:3
                                [shot]http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/screens/unreal3_full.jpg[/shot]
                                Please show me why the 2nd shot is extremely zoomed and gives you an awkward feeling

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