Hm, why is there no FOV over 100?

[Rancur3p1c]

This gives people with 4:3 screens an advantage. To the people that say making FOV go up higher gives an advantage to widescreen gamers, it does not, because as the FOV increases, more accurate aiming is required to shoot (because the characters are slightly smaller on the screen).

Please don't hijack this thread like the last one.

[Crotale]

How does it give 4:3 screens an advantage? I play on a 5:4 (1280x1024) so am I therefore even MORE advantaged?

[Rancur3p1c]

How does it give 4:3 screens an advantage? I play on a 5:4 (1280x1024) so am I therefore even MORE advantaged?

Yes. You have approx 35% more vertical viewing range than widescreen gamers. This is due to the way Epic made the FOV work. If they would increase the max FOV number, it would no longer matter-- we're all supposed to have the same vertical view, with wide screen people simply having a wider view.

When you get to extreme cases (like 3 monitor people) they can't even see half their gun, because it cuts so much off.

They probably implemented it via cropping so that when consoles switched to widescreen 720p/1080p, there would be less material to render on screen (this would make the graphics card not have to work as hard), improving playability. That's nice as all, but PC people don't get to play against console gamers so it doesn't matter; we just need a bigger FOV.

Gaming is one of the primary reasons Widescreens are so prevalent nowadays, proof of this is in the Steam system stats. Another reason is movies, and another involves the cost of manufacturing a 4:3 LCD screen vs a 16:10 or 5:4 screen like yours (they're cheaper than 4:3; they can fit more panels at once onto the presser).

This would only take about 20 minutes of coding to change, if even that-- simply changing a number. Not sure why they won't do it.

The easiest way to explain what a widescreen gamer sees when he plays UT3 is this-- measure the width of your screen. Multiply the width by 5/8 (10/16). Take a measuring tape/sheet of paper, mark that length down; and put that ruler/measuring tape up to the side of your screen for comparison. Of the image you see when you play, the widescreen gamer only has this much vertical view.

So the final equation for what he sees is (5/4) * (10/16) / (5/4) = 62.5% of the image you see.

[Crotale]

Yes. You have approx 35% more vertical viewing range than widescreen gamers.

Really? I changed resolutions on my screen and the only thing that changed was when I go to any other 4:3 resolution, such as 1024x768, the image is stretched a bit differently. I did a comparison way back when UT3 was released. I used a 4:3 monitor and my 5:4 FP. Guess what? The same image was displayed as far as I could discern, but was stretched differently to fit each screen. That said, I have to question your motives.

This would only take about 20 minutes of coding to change, if even that-- simply changing a number. Not sure why they won't do it.

Are you absolutely positively sure this will only take 20 minutes to code? What about testing and certification?

The easiest way to explain what a widescreen gamer sees when he plays UT3 is this-- measure the width of your screen. Multiply the width by 5/8 (10/16). This is the amount of vertical image that you see, that the widescreen gamer sees. Take a measuring tape/sheet of paper, mark that length down; and put that ruler/measuring tape up to the side of your screen for comparison. Of the image you see when you play, the widescreen gamer only has this much vertical view.

Anyone else wanna back this up? I get what he is saying but I'm not sure I buy it, since it contradicts a test I did some time ago. I do not have a widescreen to test this on.

[DazJW]

we're all supposed to have the same vertical view, with wide screen people simply having a wider view.

Giving wide screen owners an advantage over other people.

If you're correct then someone gets an advantage either way, so I can't see Epic bothering to fix it.

[Rancur3p1c]

Really? I changed resolutions on my screen and the only thing that changed was when I go to any other 4:3 resolution, such as 1024x768, the image is stretched a bit differently. I did a comparison way back when UT3 was released. I used a 4:3 monitor and my 5:4 FP. Guess what? The same image was displayed as far as I could discern, but was stretched differently to fit each screen. That said, I have to question your motives.

Are you absolutely positively sure this will only take 20 minutes to code? What about testing and certification?

Anyone else wanna back this up? I get what he is saying but I'm not sure I buy it, since it contradicts a test I did some time ago. I do not have a widescreen to test this on.

This has already been proven in numerous other FOV threads, with great picture examples given. I think the one you would want is in the Troubleshooting section.

Edit: Here you go
Example of what this looks like with a tri-screen display. Notice how 2/3rds of the gun is not visible.

I know the coding is trivial because there is a simple 1kb mutator which does this very thing-- fixes the FOV and allows you to increase up to any number you want. The problem is that the server has to use the mutator for the client to be allowed to have it.

[Crotale]

Giving wide screen owners an advantage over other people.

If you're correct then someone gets an advantage either way, so I can't see Epic bothering to fix it.

So, what he's saying is that the horizontal image is the same on all resolutions, but the vertical is different in order to maintain the proper perspective? If so, there is no other way to do that. If the perspective is vertically locked for all resolutions, then the widescreen players would have a greater advantage than those normal screen players using horizontally locked perspectives.

This has already been proven in numerous other FOV threads, with great picture examples given. I think the one you would want is in the Troubleshooting section.

Edit: Here you go
Example of what this looks like with a tri-screen display. Notice how 2/3rds of the gun is not visible.

I know the coding is trivial because there is a simple 1kb mutator which does this very thing-- fixes the FOV and allows you to increase up to any number you want. The problem is that the server has to use the mutator for the client to be allowed to have it.

Trivial says you. Are you a developer?

Btw, Thanks for posting that link. As that poster stated, though, this is NOT a widescreen issue, but a preference issue. The one image you posted shows an extremely wide screen. I thought you were referring to like say, 1680x1050. Still, it sounds to me that your personal issue is that you want to have an advantage over normal screen players. If that is the case, go use your mutator. There is no need for Epic to attempt to "correct this issue" as there is really no issue to correct.

[RoadKillGrill]

This has already been proven in numerous other FOV threads, with great picture examples given. I think the one you would want is in the Troubleshooting section.

Edit: Here you go

lol I was just going to post my pics, but you beat me to it.

My opinion still stands, FOV is a preference issue not a widescreen issue. Horizontal vision is more important than vertical.

Crotale: you don't need widescreen to test this, use it in window mode, you can set any res in window mode (though I suspect it might crash over 4096).

[FragTastic]

except that the trend in computing, as well as television, is tending more and more towards widescreen. The difference being that although your 10 yr old tv still does the job fine, your 4yr old computer is a doorstop. So how many people really have 4:3 monitors these days?......... *thinks about starting a poll.....

[Crotale]

Crotale: you don't need widescreen to test this, use it in window mode, you can set any res in window mode (though I suspect it might crash over 4096).

Okay, got it. Thanks.

This is the operative statement

Horizontal vision is more important than vertical.

[RoadKillGrill]

except that the trend in computing, as well as television, is tending more and more towards widescreen. The difference being that although your 10 yr old tv still does the job fine, your 4yr old computer is a doorstop. So how many people really have 4:3 monitors these days?......... *thinks about starting a poll.....

No need, steam already did it http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey 5:4 is the most popular, at about 24% of steam users, next is a 4:3 at 22%.
Conclusion: 4:3 and other "standard" resolutions holds about half the market still.

Personally if I would repair my diamond pro 22" CRT if I could, no LCD matches the quality of a good CRT.

[FragTastic]

The steam figures would be the full steam game range. Many with way softer hardware requirements than this game, that are played on older machines by people who dont even play UT3. So its interesting but not particularly relevant to UT3 IMO

[Rancur3p1c]

except that the trend in computing, as well as television, is tending more and more towards widescreen. The difference being that although your 10 yr old tv still does the job fine, your 4yr old computer is a doorstop. So how many people really have 4:3 monitors these days?......... *thinks about starting a poll.....

I still have one for my secondary screen, but that's just so I can watch temps and my instant messages and music player etc.

You put this very well, by RoadKill's logic we could reduce anything to "a preference" such as playing at 60fps over 25fps, or perhaps running at 640x480 instead of 1600x1200.

[Xyx]

Someone gets an advantage either way. Horizontal vision is more important, so widescreen players would get a greater advantage if Epic switched to the vertical limit.

Maybe the game should offer the possibility of a non-widescreen resolution on a widescreen monitor, with two black bars on the sides. That way it would be equal for all involved. Don't want the bars? Then don't complain about the top and bottom bits getting cut off.

That said, I do see widescreen as the new standard, so I wouldn't consider it completely unreasonable to expect non-widescreen players to either live with a disadvantage or get with the program. 4:3 screen size was a limitation of the glass tube era and not the result of ergonomics.

[bclagge]

This gives people with 4:3 screens an advantage. To the people that say making FOV go up higher gives an advantage to widescreen gamers, it does not, because as the FOV increases, more accurate aiming is required to shoot (because the characters are slightly smaller on the screen).

Please don't hijack this thread like the last one.

So wait, you're saying that having more vertical viewable area is an advantage, but more horizontal viewing area is not?

I tend to agree with RoadKillGrill, horizontal viewing is more important than vertical. Regardless, I also agree with you that increased FOV is not an inherent advantage. It's a tradeoff.

I have a solution for the weapons being cut off: Hidden weapons.