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Things that feel like cheating but are not(?)

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  • replied
    Actually the "dud" rocket bug is as old as the original Unreal.
    It's caused by an oversight in the netcode; basically not only is the rocket trajectory handled clientside (which is OK, since rockets travel in a straight line) but whether it explodes or not (more accurately whether it displays an explosion) is also handled clientside. So when you see an explosion that doesn't do any damage, what happens is that your PC (or console) thinks the rocket hit something (and therefore shows an explosion and removes the rocket from the screen) while the server thinks that it didn't (and the server decides on what does damage). This also means that other players may or may not actually see the rocket explode (but instead see it flying on)

    So how come your client and the server disagree on this? There are lots of possible causes for this. For one, a rocket's starting position and direction are not replicated accurately; when the server sends you the info, it converts the rocket's position and rotation vectors to sets of integers so they take up less bandwidth. This causes rounding errors. For that matter, the same thing is done with player locations and velocities, which is a second source of inaccuracy. The third is that your client probably calculates the state of the game more often than the server (clients generally run 90 frames per second while servers are generally around 30-40) so interpolated states never exist on the server.
    If a rocket hitting you in the face without doing damage though, the most common cause is that movement on your client is instant while it takes a while for the server to recognise it. So for example when you accidentally move in the direction of a rocket (instead of away from it) chances are your client is a little ahead of the server, so it may think you hit the rocket while on the server you're still a little away from the rocket. I think the only time I managed to replicate the bug on a LAN it's caused by this effect.
    Do note that this also means you don't have to feel guilty if you don't take damage from a rocket's explosion; chances are your opponent doesn't even see an explosion but instead sees the rocket missing you by a small hair.

    A small addition: I more often see the opposite of this bug, where a rocket did actually hit someone on the server (and therefore does damage) but doesn't explode on my screen (while my opponent does explode). This makes it look like my opponent was... run over by the rocket or something. Really odd.

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  • replied
    Sometimes although rarely, it seems I've taken direct hits from rockets typically 2 or more/3 on foot and have taken no damage. I wonder if that's related to lag or to the bug of the manta's indestructable nose? Allow though it seems nice when it happens, it's just not fair, but I can't help the fact it happens by chance sometimes.

    EDIT: Nevermind JohnDoe said it already. :'(

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  • replied
    Indeed there are some terrible bugs in this game. Hitting someone straight in the body with a rocket and getting a dud on them could make some players think they other guy is cheating yet it's the games terrible netcode that produced it. But what I find is that the majority of people accusing me and others of the occasional cheat are simply terrible players who haven't understood/can't understand the games mechanics.

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  • replied
    There are a LOT of bugs in the game which can make you die in the most bs ways possible. Avrils can do a damage of 0, 200 or 400 randomly. It's usually 200 but 0 and 400 sometimes happen too(400 usually when I'm in a raptor with a deemer). Then the the vehicles you kill can kill you by their wreckage. This usually happens with mantas. Yesterday I was jumping down while avriling a manta, the manta died and the wreckage falls on me and I die. WTF?

    Then the invisible wreckage that you can shoot into and kill yourself. Getting out of the darkwalker and being crushed by it while it comes down. Vehicles spawning on you and killing you. Deemers not registering. Nearby 'vehicle explosions' killing you. Need I go on?

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  • replied
    I notice the direct hits not doing any damage fairly often, whether it be my shots not doing damage to an opponent, or me taking direct rockets or link and nothing happening. It's always a shock to me when I catch a rocket in the face but no damage is taken.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by _idk_ View Post
    Or when I am (double)jumping to avoid the rockets fired on the ground I always receive splash damage (about 30points each time!!) whereas some players (again the better ones ...) don't; as if they could jump higher or further or something.

    and honestly, I won't blame this all on my own missing aiming skills.
    There is your problem, stop double jumping, it isn't worth it and most of the time against someone skilled they will pick u off easier than u can say pie. Learn to dodge every where and anywhere and especially when someone is shooting at you, the reason they are jumping higher and farther is because they are dodging most likely and not jumping.

    As far as direct hits not hitting someone, its probably lag/Ping, even with low ping you can still have packet loss and lag from the server, you still have to lead a bit as well. Flak especially.

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  • replied
    i think that's because of a remained feature from the original unreal:
    when you have killed someone, the game checks where you have hit so it can randomly remove limbs. in UT, only the head was a 'loose' limb so you can shoot off somebody's head with the enforcer, but it still does the same amount of damage

    and YES, in the original unreal you could shoot off someone's arm or leg with hitscan weapons!

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
    The enforcers didn't have code to check for headshots. Neither did the chainsaw for that matter. (try it, you can swing at someone's feet and you'll still get a "Headshot!" message)
    ok, i just went and played UT99 to check if i had been hallucinating all those years but i can say for sure now that occasionally when you kill someone with headshots from the enforcers, their head will come off. will someone else with UT99 confirm that?

    it's true, the announcer only says "Headshot!" when you get the kill with the ripper or sniper, but why would their heads come off with the enforcers if it wasn't checking for headshots?

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  • replied
    1. It's extremely easy to tell a bot user, if you're good enough at this game, the obvious tell-tale signs are a) they have horrible movement, b) restrict themselves to a very limited weapon set, and c) have absolutely no tactical or map knowledge. I've gotten accused of botting numerous times, and the easiest way to disprove it is to demonstrate that you can still dominate them with non hitscan/aim-based weapons as well as the tremendous difference in movement style. The other way is to simply demystify aim. Lower your mouse sensitivity and *gasp* you can actually aim pixel by pixel, there's nothing mysterious about good aim.

    2. To the OP, what you're experiencing is netcode issues and frankly, coding issues. If you've ever seen how the Avril is handled in unrealscript... I used to wonder why the POS doesn't fire consistently. A quick look shows you how the timers are setup for it, so frankly, it's somewhat random in its reload time. A similar example is the orb itself, ever notice how that countdown timer mysteriously hangs on 1 for an awful long time occasionally? It's the timers plus your proximity, which leads to really inconsistent results. The point being, the way these things are coded are conditional and somewhat random.

    3. I could go off in length on the netcode issues with this game but I won't. Suffice to say, things may appear one way on your screen and be entirely different in reality. This is not a zeroping, lan-emulated or a "ping compensation" game. What may look like direct hits to you aren't. Often times you're simply grazing your target or missing them altogether. Pay really close attention to the "feedback" the game tries to give you, although a shieldbelt may "glow" when hit, it will glow with 1pt of damage, so a glow doesn't mean you did much of anything.

    4. With guns like flak in particular, the randomness of the shards makes for inconsistent results. More so than that, if you ever play with a hitsound mod (louder the more direct you hit them), you'll quickly realize that what appear to be "solid" hits on your end are usually just grazes. Essentially you're nicking them a lot with flak if you don't use it properly. This gives the BS effect that you "hit" a guy 3 times with flak, he 1 shotted you.

    5. Be careful on when you call a cheat. If the guy sits in a corner and kills you as you spawn with a sniper rifle with only 1 shot consistently, of course, go for it. But if a player is flying around you and other players, he's probably just flat better. The sad truth is most players in UT3 don't even know what a "good" player is. They play on their local pub and are pretty good (relative to other pub players) and think they've got it down. There's a host of other players you won't see on your local pub who can make ever your pub superstar look like a complete nubcake.

    Frazzle

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  • replied
    Originally posted by spacedemonebu View Post
    the ripper and chainsaw got headshots

    EDIT: and actually i'm pretty sure you could get headshots with the enforcers too. are you guys sure it didn't work that way in UT99? maybe it doesn't work that way anymore but i always felt like enemies went down faster if i put the reticule over their head (even with the minigun or pulse rifle).
    The enforcers didn't have code to check for headshots. Neither did the chainsaw for that matter. (try it, you can swing at someone's feet and you'll still get a "Headshot!" message)

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  • replied
    It's easy to tell an aimbot.

    All of the aimbots I have seen (which are many), will always snap their crosshair to the closest opponent. This is really easy to spot in a crowded DM or TDM match.

    If your teammate is getting nailed by one, just observe when another teammate gets closer than the first teammate. It's almost comical how fast the bot will all of a sudden ignore the first opponent, do a complete 180, and start engaging the second opponent.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Pop! View Post
    I find that you can't really tell by 'feel' if someone is cheating. The exception being if you are still being shot to bits consistently, no matter which way or how much you dodge. If thats the case, leave the game and quietly spectate the player you suspect of cheating.
    If they are cheating, it's often pretty obvious. You'll see the players aim snap from one enemy to the next. And generally they will annihilate other players, often with not so powerful weapons too (Like the enforcer). Its even more of a giveaway when you see that the person cheating doesn't even move very well. Like no dodging etc.
    Basically, these players are n00bs in denial.

    Pop!
    Agree, so many factors involved but this is pretty much it.

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  • replied
    I find that you can't really tell by 'feel' if someone is cheating. The exception being if you are still being shot to bits consistently, no matter which way or how much you dodge. If thats the case, leave the game and quietly spectate the player you suspect of cheating.
    If they are cheating, it's often pretty obvious. You'll see the players aim snap from one enemy to the next. And generally they will annihilate other players, often with not so powerful weapons too (Like the enforcer). Its even more of a giveaway when you see that the person cheating doesn't even move very well. Like no dodging etc.
    Basically, these players are n00bs in denial.

    Pop!

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  • replied
    haha seriously? may it was just placebo. i always thought the ASMD did more damage if i got them in the face.

    the ripper and chainsaw got headshots

    EDIT: and actually i'm pretty sure you could get headshots with the enforcers too. are you guys sure it didn't work that way in UT99? maybe it doesn't work that way anymore but i always felt like enemies went down faster if i put the reticule over their head (even with the minigun or pulse rifle).

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  • replied
    Regarding splash damage vs rockets and flak, its all about your movements. Dodging is key jumping is just the last minute solution and usually = you dieing pretty fast. Skilled players will dodge much more you will see us dodging through 5-6 players to take over a node or avoid being killed. Most of the time they will bring down 2 to 3 players minimum before dieing in a 1 v 5. FPS issues are a huge to make you think there is a cheater in the mist. If your FPS or connection has packet loss be aware that the problem there is not other players cheating but you giving advantage to the other players.

    There are still cheaters out there too, so still be doubtful of everyone. Usually across the map repetitive 1 shot kills gives them away, specially if your not in the clear and momentarily just poke your head out and get shot. It just aim assist or aim bots, most of the guys that have it & use it can turn it on and off as they please, you will see them idle once in a while. Don't believe the hype that its only the top scorers that cheat, these guys now keep there scores mid to top because if they are not in the top and they generate suspicion when they see they are not in the top they stop being suspects which is exactly what they intended. These people are just stat whores, and want their kill to death ratio to be very high. The Stat hungry players are the first to worry about, but remember at the end this is just a game and these fools want to cheat and live in a world of fantasy, do not let this disturb your gaming and just keep having fun.

    Just have fun guys, remember dodging is key not just jumping. It is not the same as 2k4 (dodge jump), but it is still effective.

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