Spawnkilling?

[Ka6uki]

Hi folks,

I was wondering what you think about Spawnkilling. I am playing Warfare a lot and rather often someone becomes angry at another because he/she would be spawnkilling.
Lately a player said that too me too, but however I was just attacking their base. Of course I killed people there, but what should I do instead? - Picknick until they got weapons to get me down?

After all to spawn and become killed the same second is annoying to me too, but what is spawnkilling actually? I mean it is totally unlogical and even mad to attack a side or node/core and additionally to avoid killing the guys that are spawning besides to kill you instead. So I see it as a part of the game, or Epic could make the time longer when a player is invincible after spawning for example.

Spawnkilling for me is camping besides enemy spawnpoints and to get everyone down who is coming out there, instead of playing for the aim of the game. But I think even this would work, if the spawnpoints would be changing positions, if you could chose where to spawn or if the spawnpoints would be a bit secure to stay. On a few maps they even are, Dusk or Onyx Coast for example. It would be much easier to punish the evil spawnkiller then.

Just my 5 cents...bye!

[god smack]

if someone says that youre a spawnkiller, just kill them more :P

[MikeHunt]

its been one of those issues for years. i can see the side of it in DM where yu have no real chance of getting in the game if you keep getting spawn killed, and i often pass someone by if they spawn in front of me, plenty of other to kill.
but in warfare i cant see it as a problem, you are in their base, you want to do as much damage as possible and chances are there will be more of the opposition in there than your guys so you will get taken down pretty soon.

[H3i53nb3rg]

Lol going around in circles in the Axon spawn room whilst driving the viper ftw.

IMO spawn killing is part of the game. If the opportunity is there, then go for it and don't let the waah bots put you off.

Edit: I completely agree with MikeHunt (do you happen to know Holden McGroyn? ). In DM spawn killing makes it next to impossible for a casual player to get into the game. But in vehicle modes like vctf and warfare, spawn killing isn't much of a problem.

[Mr Evil]

There have been many other threads about this. My opinion is that spawnkilling in WAR is fine. The one mistake people tend to make is putting a lot of effort into killing spawnkillers. This is a mistake because it's exactly what they want you to do - a skilled spawnkiller can tie up half the enemy team trying to get rid of him while the rest of his team has an easy time taking nodes. A better strategy for the victims is to merely dodge and run away to do the really important things, making the spawnkiller an effectively useless member of the enemy team.

[coolcat22]

spawnkilling suck it even suck big time when pll enter you start up base and give you no chang too do something back when some 1 is spawnkilling you will see how mutch fun it is

[[GOW] K1lla]

spawn killing/camping - attacking an enemies UNLINKED node or base. (going out of your way just for a kill instead of linking nodes -which is the objective!) you don't need any kills to win a match. now... when the enemy core is vulnerable... it's perfectly fine to kill people as they spawn (as long as you're attacking the core... not just going over for kills)

we(GOW) use increased invulnerability time when spawning in our warfare mod ;-) the way Epic should have made it...IMO

[VoodooMaster]

spawn killing/camping - attacking an enemies UNLINKED node or base. (going out of your way just for a kill instead of linking nodes -which is the objective!) you don't need any kills to win a match. now... when the enemy core is vulnerable... it's perfectly fine to kill people as they spawn (as long as you're attacking the core... not just going over for kills)

we(GOW) use increased invulnerability time when spawning in our warfare mod ;-) the way Epic should have made it...IMO

I totally agree with you.

[limputtaja]

Just take them down as they would take you down, if they were on your position.

[phalanx]

play torlan and thats what some people do, its sad, some maps it is impossible when its on the core (downtown+goliath)

[Elsinore]

in the old days where we all played the first title it was a sort of gentleman agreement to not spawn kill s.o. u just dont shoot someone spawning in front of u only with a stupid pistol in his hand. there is no honor in killing him. this counts especially in 1on1 situations. everyone respected this issue in those days. those who played unreal know what im talking about. its a quality aspect.

[Mr Evil]

play torlan and thats what some people do, its sad, some maps it is impossible when its on the core (downtown+goliath)

Torlan is pretty bad when you have two SPMAs and two Goliaths bombarding you, and a flock of Mantas all whizzing about your base, but that's a map design flaw. Downtown is not a problem with the Goliath, you just have to quickly take one of the two jump-pads, and remember to not fire your weapon before then because it ends the spawn protection.

in the old days where we all played the first title it was a sort of gentleman agreement to not spawn kill s.o. u just dont shoot someone spawning in front of u only with a stupid pistol in his hand. there is no honor in killing him. this counts especially in 1on1 situations. everyone respected this issue in those days. those who played unreal know what im talking about. its a quality aspect.

In DM yes, but even in the original UT Assault there was plenty of spawn-killing going on. For instance in AS-Mazon the defenders might send someone to just outside the attackers' spawn area to spam combos. And that was fine.

[rhiridflaidd]

First principles-

Being spawnkilled is unplesant. It makes people stop playing. We cannot afford to erode the numbers of online players.

What is it
Spawnkilling is deliberately attacking an area of a map in a game of Warfare with the intention of geting frags, rather than helping your team strategically.

In vague terms
Attacking a base when the core is locked, or attacking a node when the node is shielded.

A bit more detailed...
If a node or core is 2 steps away from being vulnerable attacking there is always spawnkilling.

A node or core where there is a reasonable expectation of being imminently unlocked can sometimes be fair game. Conversely attacking a vunerable base can be spawnkilling even if the base is unlocked - e.g. taking a tank above the node in Torlan and firing down directly into the base is always spawnkilling. The intention is to rack up kills, not to win the game.

Delaying the other team from building an uncaptured node e.g. the start of downtown is fair game.

I don't consider using SPMA to be a spawnkilling, because that's the nature of the vehichle. If everybody took a shock and shot down the camera, or even better an avril to the camera (then the avril locks onto the spma itself after reaching the camera) it's solvable.


Final analysis
It's all about the intention of the player. If you do it to personally attack a node\core it's fine. If you do it to rack up kills it's wrong.

Solution.

There needs to be an anti tank mine planted in that area of the map in Torlan overlooking the base. That would be a nice use of Kismet.

Serious solution
In warfare you should not score points for frags in tactically inactive areas.

[bclagge]

Oh man I love this topic. Doesn't matter how many times it's brought up, I'd love to throw in my two cents.

First off, I'm a Warfare player and that's primarily what I'll be talking about. In Warfare, the point is to win (duh). As Daquila said, it's linking nodes and destroying the core that will get you that win. However, spawn killing can be an effective strategy to that end.

Take Downtown for example. Many a match is won because one teams goes heavy on the enemy prime node before it's vulnerable, thus preventing the orb from going anywhere and also preventing half the enemy team from doing anything effective. Then your team caps center and you work on the node and from there the core. The Hellbender is great for this because you can skymine people before they can pick up weapons. Thus, a good Hellbender driver can be nearly unstoppable camping on the enemy prime.

Take Torlan as another example. If one team controls most the map but not the prime node, having a tank or Manta tearing up the enemy base while other people work on the prime prevents the enemy team from organizing and putting up an effective counter-offensive.

I am in a competitive Warfare clan (if you can call whats left of us playing UT3 a competition). In a clan match (or even a PUG) strategies such as I describe above can win you the match. Not using them because you're too good for spawn killing may lose you the match, and if you ask me you deserve to. The key is to know when spawn killing is beneficial to the TEAM. If you do it just for kills, it typically doesn't benefit the team because your skills are likely needed elsewhere.

Back up a bit to node linking and core damage. Yes, core damage is ultimately the goal. On occasion though, pinning the enemy down in base is the prudent choice because it gives your team time to strengthen their position and start going for the core themselves. Someone mentioned early on about the tank spawn killing at the core in Downtown. That's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If the tank driver drove in to hit the core he'd be lucky to get in one shot before a couple sets of trip rox made him regret not spawn killing. Of course, I think the tank is better sitting on top of the prime making a comeback nigh impossible, but that's just me.

Here's some really great reading on this topic: (read it, it will open your eyes (don't be a scrub))
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

[rhiridflaidd]

Spawnkilling in a clan match or a Pug is fine. You aren't playing against the defenceless - and it's your opponent's team's fault for allowing you to get to where you are. Your opponents will be coordinated, and will counter you. So by all means, spawnkill in a clan match. Somehow I don't think it will take you very far.

I agree with the play to win philosophy, but in a game where a player gets the luxury to spawnkill, in general he's potentially lost you the game by taking a key resource to the far frontline. He gets to be where he is because the good players on his team have put the other team under enough pressure to allow him to get to his spawnkilling position. He is not playing to win, he is playing to increase his personal score -and that's the point here. If a player is truly spawnkilling to win, fair on him, but in general they spawnkill to inflate their egos to get a higher score - and in general allow the other team to stand a far higher chance of making a comeback than if the tank in Torlan, for instance, was in the valley by the central node, defending the prime from orbrunners.

THe other assumption you make is that online pubbing is just about winning. On Pubs, clan players, of all players should reckognise that looking after new players is more important than winning a round otherwise, who are you going to play against.