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    #31
    Originally posted by _idk_ View Post
    if it is only about improving aiming, I play instagib offline against godlike bots ... but in godmode ... this way you don't die every other step but compete against bots that are very hard to hit.

    this way I got much better with the sniperrifle, too
    seems like a nice idea for practice. I may give it a try, thanks.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by UTCollector88 View Post
      Hi

      What I don't get is how they can still hit you while you are dodging. And I don't mean after you finished doing a dodge. I think that is unfair! Especially because I am only playing Instagib on Experienced, not any higher. There should be a balance. Bots should be aloud to miss every now and then, esp if the target is moving. They miss easily on non Instagib matches on experienced difficulty. It just seems like a too big a jump from just a deathmatch on Eperienced to an Instagib on Eperienced.
      well dont think of it in human terms... bots DONT actually AIM at you. They are programs that are designed to "look like" they are aiming. The fact is, the moment you press any keyboard button they already know where that key will bring you. Its simple math.

      But its not just prediction. They have your exact coordinates wherever you are, whether it be mid air, during a dodge or jump or even moving. Because they are in your PC that already has and provides them with that info. Bots can see you though walls exactly because they know your coordinates.. so the moment you turn around a corner they have ALREADY fired 3 rockets that are heading to the corner. If it was a human he wouldnt have fired them because he would have not seen you. But bots dont need to see.

      I have made a thread where I was asking for a mod/mutator to make bot behaviour better, more realistic, more clever instead of mathematically accurate. But I believe that improving the realism of bot's accuracy shouldnt be that hard to do.

      The code that determines where they will fire should be something like:

      Accuracy% = X% * enemy's speed.
      Actual_Fired_Shot_Position = enemy's coordinates * Accuracy%

      So if you are standing still acuracy is 100% or some such depending on difficulty

      If you are moving with arrow keys accuracy is depended on your
      5miles per hour -> 78%
      While you are dodging, in the air:
      20miles per hour -> 45%

      while you are on a scorpion
      160miles per hour -> 10%

      there are just examples. Something like this could help make the accuracy more realistic...

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Kinnison View Post
        But bots dont need to see.
        They can be programmed to see and react to what they see, Epic just don't use it, too lazy I guess, they can also hear, everything makes a noise it UT for Bot AI use.

        I've done some extensive work on the Bot AI (if you can call it AI), Bots have a target list they pick an enemy from, 99.9% of the time human players are the highest prioirty in the list, hence why humans are so call picked on by bots. Not the best way of doing it, but it works. A hint, bots aim is worse when you are falling, so jumpy jumpy jumpy will hinder a bots aim.

        My current bots target by a FOV similar to humans, they pick the closest target, on high skills they'll pick stronger players or bots (usually a player with more kills or winning the match). I take quick snap shot of who is in the bots FOV and do a best target check. I removed the timed pickup, so they don't get the 4 sec advantage of power ups respawning. They won't chase you down all the time, especially if they have little health. I also adjusted the skill up they get, so they don't get harder the longer you play. Plus a numerous other things like rocket dodging only if they are able to visually see it, better flak usage (sick of the in ya face spam). I removed the track through walls stupidity, only if your in within hearing range will they track you. other wise they look for something else to do.

        If I get enough support for its release, i'll round it up to a beta, but I'm wainting for Patch 1.3 before I really do any more work.

        Comment


          #34
          Yeah I noticed that a lot in deathmatch and team deathmatch. Where they attack you before other bots. This doesn't happen if they are already fighting someone else though, only say if a bot walks in a room with you and a bunch of other bots.

          Is there a mutator to make bot AI more realistic? Because I don't know how to compete against bots mathematical calculations. You probably can't! I think in UT3 Epic went too far with the AI. Thank god Bots don't have tactics otherwise it would almost be impossible to beat them. The AI in UT99 was better I think. I still like to play UT3 though I just don't think I will go any higher than Experienced difficulty.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by ProjectUT View Post
            They can be programmed to see and react to what they see, Epic just don't use it, too lazy I guess, they can also hear, everything makes a noise it UT for Bot AI use.

            I've done some extensive work on the Bot AI (if you can call it AI), Bots have a target list they pick an enemy from, 99.9% of the time human players are the highest prioirty in the list, hence why humans are so call picked on by bots. Not the best way of doing it, but it works. A hint, bots aim is worse when you are falling, so jumpy jumpy jumpy will hinder a bots aim.

            My current bots target by a FOV similar to humans, they pick the closest target, on high skills they'll pick stronger players or bots (usually a player with more kills or winning the match). I take quick snap shot of who is in the bots FOV and do a best target check. I removed the timed pickup, so they don't get the 4 sec advantage of power ups respawning. They won't chase you down all the time, especially if they have little health. I also adjusted the skill up they get, so they don't get harder the longer you play. Plus a numerous other things like rocket dodging only if they are able to visually see it, better flak usage (sick of the in ya face spam). I removed the track through walls stupidity, only if your in within hearing range will they track you. other wise they look for something else to do.

            If I get enough support for its release, i'll round it up to a beta, but I'm wainting for Patch 1.3 before I really do any more work.
            that would be just one of the greatest custom things for UT yet. I have already made a thread asking if somone could make the bots play more humanly and with actual logic and cleverness instead of killing you with an enforcer from the other side of the map. many thanks for working on it.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by UTCollector88 View Post
              Yeah I noticed that a lot in deathmatch and team deathmatch. Where they attack you before other bots. This doesn't happen if they are already fighting someone else though, only say if a bot walks in a room with you and a bunch of other bots.

              Is there a mutator to make bot AI more realistic? Because I don't know how to compete against bots mathematical calculations. You probably can't! I think in UT3 Epic went too far with the AI. Thank god Bots don't have tactics otherwise it would almost be impossible to beat them. The AI in UT99 was better I think. I still like to play UT3 though I just don't think I will go any higher than Experienced difficulty.
              the bad thing is that with lower difficulties they dont dodge/evade as well meaning its not the best for target practice One usefull technich to practice is put godlike bots then on console type god to become invincible, this way you can practice without dying 5 times per second.

              Comment


                #37
                Yeah, Epic should release a patch that makes A.I more humanlike, more realistic. Hopefully their next patch will deal with this issue. I wish I could contact Epic Games and talk to them about the A.I.

                What I also wanted to know is how the difficulty settings comes into it. Is it that the higher the difficulty setting the more the bots dodge, or the quicker they react and fire at you using their maths predictions or both?

                Comment


                  #38
                  i have heard that at godlike they have 100% accuracy, so they will always hit you no matter what. Unless you put something between you and the bot. As you go on lower difficulties their accuracy changes and becomes more forgiving. Also on some very low difficulties they seem to stand still quite often. However i havent played above adept so I dont know how much better they dodge at the very high difficulties.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    The solution I have come up with for combating bots is just to run around everwhere shooting everywhere and being accurate at the same time. Just go crazy and show no mercy against these bots. It's works for me on Experienced and Skilled deathmatches and Team Deathmatches. Even if you aren't deadly accurate all the time chances are you will kill a lot and even get killing Sprees and maybe even Rampages.

                    You can even dodge a lot but dodging doesn't work very well. I am no expert dodger but unless you can dodge and move at the same time non stop dont dodge. I always find that I always dodge into a bots rocket or I am to slow to react. This is probably also because of the bots superhuman predictions as well, as he can lead the rocket/s to where you are about to dodge to.

                    What really gets to me is Bots with either sniper rifles or Shock Rifles or even Enforcers. Mainly bots with Sniper Rifles because sometimes they get me 3 times in a row without misses and it ****** me off. How they can not miss at all sometimes with a Sniper Rifle is beyond me. And I don't set the difficulty that high.

                    Bots with Shock Rifles is another joke. They can shoot you with a photon beam and be spot on accurate from half way or from the other end of the map and kill you. I am sorry but that is ridiculous. I know how hard it is for a human player to hit a target from half way or at the other end of the map with a Shock Rifles Photon Beam. All I know is that many players miss their first shot especially if the target is moving. And for a bot to hit you first shot well that is just absolutely ludicrous.

                    They even do this with an enforcer which is even worse. These are the things that **** me off the most about the Bot AI in UT3 as well the knowing where you are a room away and tracking you down and firing at you before you go around a corner. Luckily that hasn't happened to me a lot.

                    To me bots should not do things that human players aren't capable of doing or doing instantly. I don't care if they are computer programs surely they can be programmed to be more rational.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by UTCollector88 View Post
                      The solution I have come up with for combating bots is just to run around everwhere shooting everywhere and being accurate at the same time. Just go crazy and show no mercy against these bots. It's works for me on Experienced and Skilled deathmatches and Team Deathmatches. Even if you aren't deadly accurate all the time chances are you will kill a lot and even get killing Sprees and maybe even Rampages.

                      You can even dodge a lot but dodging doesn't work very well. I am no expert dodger but unless you can dodge and move at the same time non stop dont dodge. I always find that I always dodge into a bots rocket or I am to slow to react. This is probably also because of the bots superhuman predictions as well, as he can lead the rocket/s to where you are about to dodge to.

                      What really gets to me is Bots with either sniper rifles or Shock Rifles or even Enforcers. Mainly bots with Sniper Rifles because sometimes they get me 3 times in a row without misses and it ****** me off. How they can not miss at all sometimes with a Sniper Rifle is beyond me. And I don't set the difficulty that high.

                      Bots with Shock Rifles is another joke. They can shoot you with a photon beam and be spot on accurate from half way or from the other end of the map and kill you. I am sorry but that is ridiculous. I know how hard it is for a human player to hit a target from half way or at the other end of the map with a Shock Rifles Photon Beam. All I know is that many players miss their first shot especially if the target is moving. And for a bot to hit you first shot well that is just absolutely ludicrous.

                      They even do this with an enforcer which is even worse. These are the things that **** me off the most about the Bot AI in UT3 as well the knowing where you are a room away and tracking you down and firing at you before you go around a corner. Luckily that hasn't happened to me a lot.

                      To me bots should not do things that human players aren't capable of doing or doing instantly. I don't care if they are computer programs surely they can be programmed to be more rational.
                      I agree with you. The accuracy of bots' hitscan is disproportionate at lower skill levels.

                      There is a related problem that I want to bring attention to. During the course of a hitscan firefight (e.g. instagib), bots often take cover behind walls. Depending on the length of time they have disappeared, when they reappear they will hit you without fail, regardless of whether you are moving or not. This is extremely frustrating (especially in instagib), as humans do not and cannot do this. My only workaround for the time being is to take cover myself.

                      Has anyone else noticed this problem before?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Kinnison View Post
                        Accuracy% = X% * enemy's speed.
                        Actual_Fired_Shot_Position = enemy's coordinates * Accuracy%

                        So if you are standing still acuracy is 100% or some such depending on difficulty

                        If you are moving with arrow keys accuracy is depended on your
                        5miles per hour -> 78%
                        While you are dodging, in the air:
                        20miles per hour -> 45%
                        These two are wrong. If you ever happen to watch real human combat, the guy who dodges or jumps at the wrong time loses. When you jump or dodge, I know where you are a moving with a good constant speed for enough time for me to twitch my crosshair and put it right where you will land. Thus spectacular long jumps and dodges are no-no in Instagib, as this makes you a dead man in most cases. And the current code is pretty much what you described minus speed thingy. The bot's line-of-sight, and thus, aim is always on you as long as you're his target. All his misses are there thanks to random aim error added in the code. However it seems that in certain cases this aim error does not affect the aiming (d.e. in case with Link Gun beam and high level bots) and the fact that in Instagib aim error seems to be too low, to seriously affect bot's aiming. Even Average bots, who turn slow and can only do one thing at a time - shoot or move will be able to make incredible shots across the map (like hitting the guy behind the DD boxes from the lifts on Deck through the gab between these boxes) as long as they don't have to turn much. On Godlike this aim error is pretty much non-existant

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Bots and dodging

                          Hi

                          I tried Instagib against bots on Godlike on godmode. Let me tell you something, dodging might be a no no in instagib but the bots know how and when do to it. And do it well. The bots seem to do it at the right time. I can't even hit them when they are not dodging, just moving. I can never figure out the right time to dodge. I managed to get a few kills but that is when they finally decide to stay in one shot.

                          Thank god for random aim error then or bots would be unstoppable. Was this the case for the bots in the other Unreal Tournaments? Also where can I find the bot AI config file/s. I want to look at it, or them?

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