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    #16
    Originally posted by 3leggedFreak View Post
    No, you still don't got it, try again. Chess is actually exactly what I meant with good game design, it's easy to learn but hard to become good at.

    And btw, checkers = consoles, so don't mix it into your comparison.
    I guess I don't get it, because I equate Warfare to chess and you were saying that Warfare was flawed.

    I don't see any issues. It's not beginner friendly if said beginner just wants to join in and start winning right away. Spend 10 minutes spectating and asking questions and you should get the gist.

    I can't say that noobs won't get flamed, but I think that's more a trait of the entire Internet than the UT3 Warfare community.

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      #17
      Originally posted by MoonBlood View Post
      I think Warfare is more noob friendly than the other game types. At least in Warfare, there's action going on all over the place and there are all different kinds of ways of earning points, which can make you feel like you're accomplishing something even without getting in the heavy action. And it's fairly easy to pickup so long as you're dedicated to it; I'm an okay Warfare player and I picked it up quickly without ever playing Onslaught.

      Even bad players can have a lot of fun in Warfare, whereas playing something like pure CTF with good players can be bloody frustrating. But maybe that's just me.

      Yes, this is exactly how I feel. I'm a beginning UT3 players, and I've found Warfare to be by far the most fun as a beginning player, simply because (as you mention) there's always an easy way to contribute to your team: healing vehicles, using the avril, assisting the orb carrier, etc.

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        #18
        I'm not sure that I explained well what's the point that I was trying to make. I'm going to say it in another way, just in case...

        It's not a matter of being difficult, it's a matter of negativity. The game should be about:
        - Working as a team
        - Competing against the enemy team
        - Capture nodes by any means necessary
        - When a new player stands out and fails, it doesn't matter much. On vCTF the announcer goes: "player grabbed the red flag;player dropped the red flag"
        - The best case should happen: the successful individual stands out and is praised by the rest of the team. It brings the successful people to the top


        but often it's about:
        - Having heroes or hierachies
        - Fighting for the orb amongst the team
        - Be narrow minded and see the orb as the only way to capture nodes
        - Individual failure is punished: The announcer: "player grabbed the red orb; player dropped the red orb".
        - Pushes unsuccessful people down and creates the worst case.


        Just considering what's different between the 3 gametypes:
        Code:
                        vCTF       ONS       WAR 
        On success:   praising  nothing   nothing
        On failure:   nothing   nothing   punishment
        ----------------------------------------------
        Total:        positive    zero    negative

        And IMHO when people say that new players "should not play online until ...", "noobs waste the orb", "need etiquette (related to orb use)", etc... they are just proving my point.

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          #19
          I think it places a heavier burden on the individual player than VCTF and CTF, since mistakes with the orb or vehicles can really cost your team and there's more emphasis on speed. But if there's a problem it's not with the gametype itself, just the attitudes of other players. It takes about as long to type out tips for failing beginners as it does to rant and blame your losses on them, but you'll almost never catch people doing the former.

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            #20
            I just don't see the point in flaming n00bs on a pub server. Losing a game or two on a pub server where there really isn't much at stake is no big deal. The newer players will learn the basics/essentials of Warfare fairly quickly. I mean come on, it's not like it takes a lot of brain power to play UT.

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              #21
              Tell them to get the rocket lancher and just chuck rocket grenades into the ball of carnage, they'll more than likely kill a few people and accomplish slowing the other team down.

              As far as warfare not being user friendly, I say most people in warfare arent user friendly.

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                #22
                Play and do the best you can. Remember who treated you poorly so you can own them down the road when you are better. Good luck.

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                  #23
                  And just don't grab the orb when you don't know the routes :P

                  -> forum.justwarfare.com there you can find all the tips/tricks in each level:P

                  I don't care if people can shoot and take the orb in the right way, becuase most of the times you won't see much enemies. When you run straight through the middle, even the best player will make it alive to the node.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Oliebol View Post
                    And just don't grab the orb when you don't know the routes :P
                    Don't worry, I don't grab it. I don't like crowds, I'm not a believer of this religion, and I prefer the old fashioned link gun anyway

                    edit. The orb is the best way to get nodes, it's not the only one:
                    - It's not the only way to attack a node, WAR is not dumb DM + orb. It's not urgent to cap the flood node, what's prevents the flood is it's destruction. You can see that **** node from the street on MarketDistrict, why don't you fire at it?
                    - These days, people seem to only manage to keep the nodes up using the orb to shield it. When under fire you can keep a node up with the link gun, you know? Like you do with a tank!
                    - ANd when someone screws up, if a team can't live without the orb for 30 secs or 1 min, it has already lost anyway

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