Hellbender?

[Transmitthis]

UT3's Bender is always the last choice in online maps
no one seems to want to bother with it.

much prefer the 2004 version myself.

[bclagge]

Yeah most people leave it behind. Often go off on foot rather than take it. Works for me, because then it's usually available. The Hellbender is devastating if used correctly. The rear turret instakills unstacked infantry. It's great when used as a super sniper. The skymines fired by the driver obliterate anything. Two blasts kill a Manta, Viper or Scorpion. Three or four for another Hellbender or a Nemesis. Only a couple more take out the tank and the Paladin (killed both of them with a Hellbender tonight). Spray the skymines through a crowded area takes out all infantry and severly damages most vehicles. If you sit the Hellbender behind cover and detonate strings of skymines across a choke point it can be more effective than a tank. The skymines destroy incoming AVRILS with ease, the only other vehicle that can claim that is the Goliath. Many of these things could not be done with the 2004 bender because the driver and skymine gunner couldn't coordinate perfectly, even if they had voice communication. Both functions controlled by one person makes fancy skymine manuevers possible.

[D-Hunter]

While I did enjoy the balance of the UT2004 Hellbender, the driving experience sucked. It was like driving a large brick at a slow, monotonous pace, showing no signs of acceleration or banking on turns.

[XenonG]

I will line this up so it will be more easier to read. And this is not complaining about the UT3 Hellbender, just explaining why the whole game's balance is more important.

1.) UT2004 Hellbender is more effective, but also has its weaknesses, for example, one direct shot from Goliath tank most of the time would kill all accupants in the Hellbender.

2.) UT3 HellBender is enclosed for driver who also controls the skymines, a full health Hellbender getting a direct shot from the Goliath tank would mostly just kill the gunner on the back who might unluckily at then had low health points.

3.) The UT3 Hellbender seems to move around with more speed and acceleration than the UT2004 Hellbender, easier to dodge slower moving projectiles from a distance now. Plus RL and Link in UT3 moves slower, making dodging fire even more easy.

The fact that the driver for the UT3 Hellbender is "enclosed", plus, a full health UT3 Hellbender doesn't eksploden from a direct shot from the Goliath tank and the driver doesn't die from that one hit, all means that you cannot use the UT3 HellBender as you did in UT2004's Hellbender. Either get used to it or learn the correct ways of utilising it, or don't use it at all. Personally When facing a choice in "MOST" maps in UT3, choosing between the HellBender and the Manta, I would choose the HellBender, but put in the Scorpion for choices, I will take the Scorpion over those two.

Example of effectiveness for me when using UT3 Scorpion against land vehicles and maybe occational Raptor and Fury if they are close enough.

Scorpion Glob > Manta, Viper, Raptop (LOLOLOLOL, homing)
Scorpion Self-destruct > Manta, Viper, Hellbender, Raptop, Fury
Scorpion Self-destruct + Two Flak fire > Full health Goliath + unsuspecting driver

Example of effectiveness for me when using the UT3 Hellbender against anything
in MOST MAPS

Hellbender Sky Mine > On foot combatants(if I have enough Skymines around them or one close enough)
Hellbender turret > Anything opponent that doesn't land a shot at me while I decrease their HP.

Also, if you can time it correctly all the time Hellbender Sky Mines can kill the Manta and Viper pilots without destroying the vehicles themselves.

As you can see, I have to be more specific in situations on how effective the UT3 HellBender for me, when for the UT3 Scorpion its pretty simple on pointing out how to "effectively" use it, just point, dodge tank fire and shoot.

UT3 Hellbender requires more skill to use as the driver. Drive while looking out for hostiles, and trying to aim and shoot while driving around running into walls, same effect for the Scorpion, except the Scorpion is lighter and has a smaller U turn distance. Doing the dougnut handbrake 180 turn is still harder with the UT3 Hellbender versus the UT3 Scorpion due to the Hellbender's now really nice weight which it is suppose to behave like due to its larger size.

If you like to do spammin Shock combos while moving around protected, this vehicle would probably be your wet dream as it requires very good timing as most UT3 weapons are anyway.

So, after all that ideas + testing, I got these:
UT2004 HellBender needs two players to be effective, driver concentrates on driving while Sky Mine gunner concentrates on spammin, Goliath one hit kill. Driver can counter this threat by paying attention to things happening all around, will see Goliath and drive to cover, most of the time hardly got a chance to get close enough to Goliath tank to completely destroy it from full health.

UT3 Hellbender has protected cockpit(lol), but driver has control of Sky Mines now and no more second player to control Sky Mine. Now the driver has to concentrate on spamming the sky mines onto hostiles while trying to look around to dodge fire. Now that cockpit is enclose, and the UT3 HellBender can survive one direct shot from the Goliath tank(tank has splash damage reduction a lot compared to UT2004's), the UT3 Hellbender is now actually a choice against the Goliath tank if you can dodge a few fires and let off enough Sky Mines while trying to get them as close to the Goliath tank as possible while timing the charges, and a few more threats to consider like if the map has a Scorpion or Manta close by, that makes it even harder.

If the sky mines turret control on the UT3 Hellbender is by another player, the driver can concentrates on driving around obstacles while /trying/ to dodge enemy fire and passenger concentrates on dealing as much damage as possible on nearby hostiles/targets. Essentially, the field of vision is opened, driver can concentrate on spotting tanks and threats while moving around avoiding them, and Passenger/Sky Mine turret gunner does the attacking. Since that makes the HellBender under the hands of two very skilled player almighty to land vehicles, this creates some very unbalance situations where the Hellbender could possibly, OWN all.

I can imagine it sets out like this, Team at Epic Games wana make the HellBender more effective and useful, but online, rarely a second player jumps on the HellBender to handle the Sky Mines or the driver simply drives off with it out of reach to team mates and when on distance, driver will probably get killed before the driver can do anything since all the weapons kill very fast now in UT3, so lets give the Driver control over the sky mines turret, but Goliath tank and surprise one shot kill the driver due to the HellBender's open cockpit, so lets close it off, now need two shots to disable a full health UT3 Hellbender.

Considering all this, and I haven't even gotten around to mention the turret behind the HellBender.... I say Epic Games done a really great job in balancing out the WHOLE of UT3, I salut to the UT3 team at Epic Games for this. It seems as if the HellBender is unbalancing the whole game.

Well, personally I just use the UT3 HellBender to clear out Manta, Viper pilots and on foot players, rarely got a chance to stop those sneaky Scorpion self-destruct launches unless it is coming straight at me, some of the people I play with do crazy creative things, really hard to predict.

And I really liked how when the driver exits or switches seat, the UT3 HellBender suspension goes down and "turns off", lol, really nice attention to detail there(Feel like a real 4 wheel drive truck). And the handling for the vehicle feels very "solid". Even though the new HellBender is not exactly an "improvement" compared to the other vehicles(Goliath got nerfed main cannon, but now has.... better handling and acceleration, dodging shots with it, LOL), it is perfectly balanced with the other weapons in UT3, which is much much much more important, the balance of the whole game. Nothing dominates all. Not even the Redeemer, **** long spawn time + slow flying speed + can get DENIED + can only carry Redeemer at a time for each player(why do this? I wana camp and hold up to 3 redeemers so I can spam them, LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL).

[Cheezes]

The rear turret gun in the bender in UT3 is practically useless. I can't believe they took away the charge up option like in UT 2004. With a steady hand and good aim that gun was devastating to infantry and Mantas alike in 2004. Now its just a quick fire plasma laser that is not very powerful at all. I do like the fact that the driver can shoot on the move but it totally takes away from team work aspect of the vehicle. More fun but far less strategic. Pick your poison as they say.

[XenonG]

The rear turret gun in the bender in UT3 is practically useless. I can't believe they took away the charge up option like in UT 2004. With a steady hand and good aim that gun was devastating to infantry and Mantas alike in 2004. Now its just a quick fire plasma laser that is not very powerful at all. I do like the fact that the driver can shoot on the move but it totally takes away from team work aspect of the vehicle. More fun but far less strategic. Pick your poison as they say.

The first shot from the UT3 Hellbender can instantly kill an infantry, you just need to let it charge up for a while then fire again, don't keep holding it and rapidfire, it still can do instant kills.

[Cheezes]

Still a pitiful comparison to the zoom in sniper style, hold the trigger for maximum boost then release once the victim is in sight style from 2003. Having to wait for a recharge then clicking once to get the full damage with no zoom option is a **** weapon. Keep in mind that mad driver up front is bouncing all over the place to make matters worse.

[RPGWiZaRD]

The rear turrent isn't useless, it's a nice sniper vehicle on large open maps that kills infantries instantly in one hit regardless if hit in the legs or head. I love doing that on vCTF-DustBowl, seriously lending out a helping hand for flag carriers. But I hate it when a 2nd player jumps into the vehicle though.

However if you haven't noticed it takes a short time for it to charge up to full power, if you keep rapid firing with the turrent it will damage less. You just keep it zoomed in all the time, it's good enough zoom to hit players on a huge distance.

[XenonG]

The rear turrent isn't useless, it's a nice sniper vehicle on large open maps that kills infantries instantly in one hit regardless if hit in the legs or head. I love doing that on vCTF-DustBowl, seriously lending out a helping hand for flag carriers. But I hate it when a 2nd player jumps into the vehicle though.

However if you haven't noticed it takes a short time for it to charge up to full power, if you keep rapid firing with the turrent it will damage less. You just keep it zoomed in all the time, it's good enough zoom to hit players on a huge distance.

Ah, nicely put.

OT: Are you the same RPGWiZaRD at Tweakforce.com ?

[Wail of Suicide]

Still a pitiful comparison to the zoom in sniper style, hold the trigger for maximum boost then release once the victim is in sight style from 2003. Having to wait for a recharge then clicking once to get the full damage with no zoom option is a **** weapon. Keep in mind that mad driver up front is bouncing all over the place to make matters worse.

You can zoom in and fire with UT3's Hellbender.
If you're going to complain, at least make legitimate complaints, such as UT3 Hellbender's unibeam doing marginally less damage than UT2004's twin beams at full charge, the ridiculous ease with which a rear gunner can be headshotted, or the way the turret inaccuracy makes a gun which relies on precision very inaccurate in most situations.

[Cheezes]

Okay my bad about the zoom thing. Yes you can. If that gun was so effective as you state then why doesn't anyone even bother riding in the back anymore. In 2004 unless some dolt took off with no passengers that rear turret was put to good use by many people. It's not as effective now by a wide margin regardless of its' so called full power mode.

[bclagge]

True, it's not as effective. It's mildy weaker and has no knockback and that annoying inaccuracy. People don't ride in the back because it's very difficult to hit targets with the bender bouncing back and forth with it's new spring steering. Plus without the charge bar people just spam and don't do much damage. Plus without knockback the weapon doesn't even feel powerful.

[Belgian General]

What are skymines?

[bclagge]

The strings of shock combos that the driver of the Hellbender fires. Left click to fire a few and right click to detonate them.