Orbfare

[SpineShanK]

i didn't play any pick up game with rob and leo yet but CB matches. and to be honest i enjoy every warfare game. from crowded servers to pick up games.

just keep the usage of stinger low and not too much spawnkilling then you have a vgg

[Benfica]

No, but leaving the node alone was.

We didn't leave the node alone, as I said, I stood behind.

Then you need more defenders, huh? :P

No Leo. What we need is to get out of this "yet-another-round-of-ONS-crapture-the-Orb-v1.1" ! The single argument: "The Orb is fine!" is bullocks when a lot of people think differently, feel genuinely annoyed about it, like alternatives, 1 or 2 maps out of 10 w/o them. The ones that claim that "The Orb is fine" and don't even consider trying an alternative node layout, Orb distribution, etc..., how about showing proof that the best gameplay for all the existing maps, is with exactly this number of Orbs and the spawners on these locations.

Avalanche, aha! So if that isn't something special about Warfare...

This thread is about the Orbs, not ONS vs Warfare

Seriously, I bet in ONS you wouldn't have got the prime back for a single second.

Do you bet? Let's try it w/o Orbs then? OMG, he wants to try something different

And nice to hear that you're a defender - these are the silent heroes I need to get enemy primes.

Oh, I see, I have to work harder than on ONS to make sure you have fun.

[D2F[Leo]]

The single argument: "The Orb is fine!" is bullocks when a lot of people think differently, feel genuinely annoyed about it, like alternatives, 1 or 2 maps out of 10 w/o them.

The single argument "The orb destroys Warfare and needs to be removed/adjusted!" is *******s when a lot of people think differently, genuinely love the orb and the new levels it adds to the gameplay and can't see any reason to "fix" it after dozens of hours playing the game.

Hmm?

This thread is about the Orbs, not ONS vs Warfare

Since people like the thread starter claim that Warfare is ONLY ONLY ONLY about the orb and mainly want it to be removed or dumbed down to something that plays like old ONS again, it pretty much is about ONS vs. WAR.

Do you bet? Let's try it w/o Orbs then? OMG, he wants to try something different

I try different things all the time... In fact I'm none of the persons who blindly sticks to one gametype without trying the other or having a look at custom content, maps, muts, etc. Of course I would try it on a decent server.

Oh, I see, I have to work harder than on ONS to make sure you have fun.

Yes... :> ONS was too simple and easy in that regard and I guess we all appreciate some actual thinking and reacting while we play, instead of ONS-style rush rush rush. :P

[Rob.JW]

No Leo. What we need is to get out of this "yet-another-round-of-ONS-crapture-the-Orb-v1.1" ! The single argument: "The Orb is fine!" is bullocks when a lot of people think differently, feel genuinely annoyed about it, like alternatives, 1 or 2 maps out of 10 w/o them. The ones that claim that "The Orb is fine" and don't even consider trying an alternative node layout, Orb distribution, etc..., how about showing proof that the best gameplay for all the existing maps, is with exactly this number of Orbs and the spawners on these locations.

Same goes to just claiming the orb sucks. It's powerful yes, and in the right hands will completely and utterly throw the match. How is that different from a decent tank driver in onslaught?? They could pretty much nail anything thrown at them. My arguement to try pickup has been worded wrong i guess, i'd like the people claiming its broken to at least see first hand how it can work, and then make their opinion.

[Benfica]

The single argument "The orb destroys Warfare and needs to be removed/adjusted!" is *******s when a lot of people think differently, genuinely love the orb and the new levels it adds to the gameplay and can't see any reason to "fix" it after dozens of hours playing the game.

Hmm?

I don't agree with "The orb destroys Warfare", because as you may know I defend it on a large number of maps exactly the way it is. And as I said on my previous post, I don't like to adjust it or get rid of it on Warfare. See next point.

Since people like the thread starter claim that Warfare is ONLY ONLY ONLY about the orb and mainly want it to be removed or dumbed down to something that plays like old ONS again, it pretty much is about ONS vs. WAR.

Well, what sometimes people fail to realise is that there are 3 options about all this:
- The Orb is fine and let's keep it like it is, without considering alternatives.
- The Orb itself must be adjusted, tweaked. It would change gameplay on all maps.
- Leave all the maps as they are, and additionaly create other versions or new maps, where the number of Orbs can be adjusted. This wouldn't change the existing gameplay a single bit and would create new one for the people that want so.

Why people oppose to the 3rd is beyond me.

[nkvd3941]

Onslaught / Warfare is far more playable WITH the orb as it is. Now at least a team isnt locked in its base with a 10% chance of a come back.

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Bad teamplay, as usually. A single guy at the prime could have killed the orb carrier. And duh... guess how hard it would have been in stalemate-ONS to get your prime back in the beginning. ;] To me that rather sounds like a gg tbh, you were very close to a hard-earned comeback, but eventually lost due to the usual carelessness.

I agree. The fact that your team was scrambling to do all that, and still lost in a close-fought match just sounds like a good game. It isn't winning or losing, it's how tight the game is that matters to me.

I actually played a 1v1 Warfare match the other day on Sinkhole, and had the most intense games I've had in a long time. My core was down to 1 point when I won that match. That sort of gameplay wouldn't happen without the Orb.

People like to blame the orb when they lose, but don't give it the credit it deserves for long, back-and-forth games where turnarounds are frequent, and everyone is scrambling the entire time, while both cores are being damaged throughout the game. The Onslaught "runaway leader" problems are very much solved by the orb, and the current state of the game shows that people can now very well neutralize the power of the orb, if they know what they're doing.

A simple solution for those who don't like the effect of the orb: make it work for you. Camp their orb generator, and whack those who take the bait.

Also, if you find yourself heading for a node, just to find it completed or turned by an orb, you need to pay closer attention to the minimap, which clearly shows each orb's position. Orb carriers need to be taken care of long before they get near their target node.

[Benfica]

No.

I will just play offline a bit more until there are maps w/o Orbs or servers with no-Orb mutator. Then I will play like 4 games out of 5 with stock Orb distribution and another different one.

[D2F[Leo]]

No.

I will just play offline a bit more.

- ok, forget about this line, my quote was faster than your edit :P -

In any case: :/

[s8nskeep]

Why people oppose to the 3rd is beyond me.

I totally agree with this Benfica. I find it very strange that those people that claim the Orb isn't overpowered and doesn't dominate the game play are so AGAINST altering it in anyway.

It would strike me that, as Rob or Leo claim, that the Orb is easy to counter, why do they care if it is changed?

[Rob.JW]

Cause we like the game as it is...

[s8nskeep]

Cause we like the game as it is...

Oh ok, fair enough. You've obviously protested against the Epic patches then because of the gameplay tweaks.

[commiecat]

I wouldn't mind hearing some propositions for maybe tweaking the orb, but honestly I think it's been a great addition to the game. If your team can't take out an orb-holder protecting a node then the opponent clearly has the better team and would win regardless.

I played strictly on public Onslaught servers and I do the same with Warfare. I've found that more WAR matches go into overtime than in ONS (for me). I've also found that in those overtime matches, the team that is ahead is less guaranteed to win. That is to say, in WAR overtimes, I've seen a good amount of fluctuation between which side was ahead -- especially in maps containing nodes with a direct impact upon the core (e.g., Floodgate and PowerSurge).

I had a match yesterday (Torlan Necris with core-prime-prime-core setup) in which our core was down to 1 point. Literally. The opponent had a full core. I had hijacked the Nightshade and was camped at the enemy prime, mostly because I figured the game was just about over anyways. Our orb runner captured our prime and I started attacking theirs. I built the node and protected it w/ the Nigthshade -- we won probably 2 minutes later (if that) with a one-point core.

Keep the orb!

[Helfdane]

No, you don't. You visit our IRC channel, !add up for a game and wait for more people to add. Once the list is filled, you get the IP and password to a private server where you play. IRC channel link in my signature. Btw, where are you from? The European pickup won't help you much if you're American. :P If you are American, zerofrag.com should run pickups too on a regular basis.

Yeah, American, unless we vote another Bush this election, then I'll be British. (seriously) I'll check zerofrag, thank you.

]I noticed that the spawn prevention in UT3 doesn't work as easy as in 2k4 - a single shot at a node often doesn't prevent people from spawning there, could also be a different timer after that single shot, dunno. "Send in some deathmachters"? Come on, you play on public servers where you obviously can't find any teamplay (hence most of your complaints about the orb) and want to imply that you are able to force any kind of organised playing? That's ridiculous. Anyway you totally miss Nacher's point here and you're also stultifying yourself. He talks about capturing essential nodes (e.g. primes) with the orb - that is an important, central and working element in Warfare and doesn't need to be discussed. Now you say you'd "send some deathmatchers in" that are able to kill all the people around the node, but in the same breath you assume that a node-protecting orb carrier there would be unkillable for your deathmatchers and will defend the node forever? Orb carriers who defend nodes can hardly take cover and are easy to kill. Amen. Do you think people don't read your posts properly?

Yeah, I've noticed that too about protection not starting right away. I'm not sure why tweak that either. For me, I usually figure out if we have anyone on the team who goes in and deathmatches the nodes, then support him if I do. I'm often stuck without vehicles in 2k4, so standing far away and hitting the node with a shock rifle doesn't hurt the node much but it helps anyone deathmatching the node. If no one like you is on the team who knows to attack the node, then I have to go in to do it myself and just hit the node now and again.

In Warfare, Downtown and Torlan get played a lot these days, and once the orb is protecting that first node you might as well have your own orb up your ****. Your orb won't change the node, because it is protected everyone on the enemy team, even the lost players, are at tne prime node because when they die in deathmatch they respawn at the prime. When you kill the orb carrier, the orb just falls to the ground so anyone else on the team just picks it up and holds it and you're right where you started. And, happily, the node hasn't been shot because it was just protected, so the previous orb carrier is right there to kill again as well. Most of the nodes in Warfare are protected, i.e. most have structures around them, and again surrounded by enemy players, so it is far from simple to kill an enemy protecting the node. On Torlan specifically you can hide away to where you're practically untouchable.

[QUOTE='D2F[Leo]]You "obviously" know what to do? Because you say so? The only guy in here who seems to know you said that you're a whiner... Then go somewhere where you can actually prove that you have a clue. Anyway this passage is trivial, as it's only your personal opinion again.

...because I describe in detail what to do in the message, which is the low reading comprehension part.

It’s odd that he is supposed to know all about me and yet I've never seen his name playing. I've mentioned a few botters, but usually when they are really overpowering the other players with their bot. Some hackers turn their hax way up, like not permanent DD but quad damage and worse (at least here in the US), so benders to down with two or three flack cannon shots, tanks taken out by a single twin beam shot, etc., I once lost a tank to a single twin beam shot that went through a wall. That really makes it less of a game and more just entertaining some child with his hax, so I wouldn't consider it whining as much as standing up for the non-haxors in the game. We paid for the game too, after all, and they specifically agreed not to cheat when they accepeted the license agreement installing the game.

]Nobody has to have the same problems with Warfare. You're mostly arguing with players who know what they are talking about, you're skating on thin ice when you imply that people are noobs or idiots just because they don't share your view.

Again, reading comprehension difficulties arise in conversation. I point out the problems with orbfare and argue with your dismissals, not call you a noob or idiot. From what I gather, your reading comprehension doesn't get in the way of your UT skills. , and as you'll note, the letter is directed to Epic, not you.

[Taboen]

Oh ok, fair enough. You've obviously protested against the Epic patches then because of the gameplay tweaks.

You do know that patches only fix things, not change things, right? Just saying thats all.