Orbfare

[Helfdane]

Pick Ups are played on a specific server that is arranged over IRC. It is a password protected server (not open to all and sundry) and normally is 5 v 5. The standard on these servers varies greatly from most publics because everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing. If I were you, I would maybe spec one or two pick-up matches so that you can understand that its not the orb that screws up gameplay, its ppl who do not know how to use or counter it (by for example, aggresively defending key nodes).

Thanks for that. I actually do know what to do, as can be detected by reading the original post. I may try to get into those, though. Do you have to be a clan member to get into one?

Your main topic has already been done to the death in another thread. You are better off posting there rather than kicking off the same old discussion in a new thread.

It needs to be done to death, and kept in front of Epic's eyes. The more ways/descriptions they can get the more information they'll have before changing a game again in a detrimental way. Standard software development strategies suggest heavy market studies before writing a single line of software.

[Helfdane]

Comeback would simply be next to impossible in most WAR maps without the orb. There is no way on earth to get in a node protected by 12-16 players and land enough shots (like shoot it for a minute) to get it destroyed, while the entire enemy team is spawmming at you. Orb stops stalemates and keeps the pace of the game up, which is a huge improvement from ONS, which was endless deathmatch around prime nodes.

Actually, the orb prevents those comebacks, not assists them. When the prime is held, you just need to send in some deathmatchers while someone else shoots the node at least a little. That prevents enemies from respawning at the same node and sends them back to the next node up the line. If you're experiencing endless deathmatches at nodes you're trying to take back, then you just need to get a shot into the node once in a while and the problem will go away. A protecting orb does what you complain about, it prevents you from being able to shoot the node and divert respawns to a different node. The problem you described orbs as solving is the problem that they actually introduce.

Orb is destructive if your team (or you) have no clue how to defend nodes. Of course you will lose your prime, if your whole team attacks forward and leaves the node unprotected. Clearly you are playing like this as well.

Hehe, clearly you failed to read the original message, or have a low reading comprehension issue. Obviously I know what to do, the problem is that the game has become a game of where is the orb, how is it to be defended against, etc. That is CTF with a mobile flag base, and not very interesting. Onslaught was interesting, and because of the orb warfare is not.

And for the love of god, do NOT call public servers "pickups". Huh! This subject about orb has already been done to death. Orb is not going to go away, live with it.

Done or not, you have yet to understand the issue, so apparently there is some work to be done. Post as if you can understand the topic. That you must know and react to every condition of the orb is why it is a problem, not something I don't undestand. The redeemers were overwhelming to Onslaught so servers eventually turned them off, and you also had to keep in mind whether the redeemers were near respawing, how they were being delivered etc. They were sort of a fun/interesting form of the orb, and were turned off quickly by servers for the exact reasons I'm suggesting Epic change the orb.

BTW, in sports, you show up on a rugby pitch and play with the others who came, which is called a pick up game (or hockey rink or basket ball court, etc). Sorry, I thought video games used a similar definition.

[D2F[Leo]]

Hey, I've seen this guy in action. Don't listen to Helfdane, he spends 90% of the match complaining about everybody hacking and will even insult his teammates.

Interesting, and pretty much the image I already had.

I may try to get into those, though. Do you have to be a clan member to get into one?

No, you don't. You visit our IRC channel, !add up for a game and wait for more people to add. Once the list is filled, you get the IP and password to a private server where you play. IRC channel link in my signature. Btw, where are you from? The European pickup won't help you much if you're American. :P If you are American, zerofrag.com should run pickups too on a regular basis.

Actually, the orb prevents those comebacks, not assists them. When the prime is held, you just need to send in some deathmatchers while someone else shoots the node at least a little. That prevents enemies from respawning at the same node and sends them back to the next node up the line. If you're experiencing endless deathmatches at nodes you're trying to take back, then you just need to get a shot into the node once in a while and the problem will go away. A protecting orb does what you complain about, it prevents you from being able to shoot the node and divert respawns to a different node. The problem you described orbs as solving is the problem that they actually introduce.

I noticed that the spawn prevention in UT3 doesn't work as easy as in 2k4 - a single shot at a node often doesn't prevent people from spawning there, could also be a different timer after that single shot, dunno. "Send in some deathmachters"? Come on, you play on public servers where you obviously can't find any teamplay (hence most of your complaints about the orb) and want to imply that you are able to force any kind of organised playing? That's ridiculous. Anyway you totally miss Nacher's point here and you're also stultifying yourself. He talks about capturing essential nodes (e.g. primes) with the orb - that is an important, central and working element in Warfare and doesn't need to be discussed. Now you say you'd "send some deathmatchers in" that are able to kill all the people around the node, but in the same breath you assume that a node-protecting orb carrier there would be unkillable for your deathmatchers and will defend the node forever? Orb carriers who defend nodes can hardly take cover and are easy to kill. Amen. Do you think people don't read your posts properly?

Hehe, clearly you failed to read the original message, or have a low reading comprehension issue. Obviously I know what to do, the problem is that the game has become a game of where is the orb, how is it to be defended against, etc. That is CTF with a mobile flag base, and not very interesting. Onslaught was interesting, and because of the orb warfare is not.

You "obviously" know what to do? Because you say so? The only guy in here who seems to know you said that you're a whiner... Then go somewhere where you can actually prove that you have a clue. Anyway this passage is trivial, as it's only your personal opinion again.

Done or not, you have yet to understand the issue, so apparently there is some work to be done.

Nobody has to have the same problems with Warfare. You're mostly arguing with players who know what they are talking about, you're skating on thin ice when you imply that people are noobs or idiots just because they don't share your view.

[Rob.JW]

You claim you know what you're doing, so proove it. Come in the IRC channel and try a pickup. Show that you know what you're doing and maybe you'll be listened to

[Masaai_Warrior]

Thanks for that. I actually do know what to do, as can be detected by reading the original post. I may try to get into those, though. Do you have to be a clan member to get into one?

I was not implying that you didn't know what to do. Its just that the publics frequently have a lot of people who don't know what to do - which is normal as they are still learning. Tbh, it is not that complicated. Nothing that a website and a number of pictures couldn't illustrate.

It needs to be done to death, and kept in front of Epic's eyes. The more ways/descriptions they can get the more information they'll have before changing a game again in a detrimental way. Standard software development strategies suggest heavy market studies before writing a single line of software.

No reason to start a whole new topic about it though, imo.

[Benfica]

I really don't agree on changing the Orb characteristics, but on some maps the gameplay could be better. Sometimes on pubs there are 2 guys playing and 22 (or 30) filling slots.

I like the alternatives of playing Downtown and Floodgate w/o orbs, and one on Islander. They play fine offline.

[s8nskeep]

Mate, before spewing all that rubbish, try playing a pickup at least. Two days in a row now we've had 2 servers filled simultaneously, our first month we played over 100 games and it's rising faster every day. There is also a 5v5 cup announced, as well as 14 v 14 America vs Europe. In march Warfare is featured at i33 as part of the iPower series. Oh, and two games tonight lasted around the one hour mark, despite round limits being on 10minutes till overtime.


gg

Sorry Rob, but if you are saying the only way to get a good game on Warfare is to play on PUGs then you are admitting the game is broken.

[D2F[Leo]]

Sorry Rob, but if you are saying the only way to get a good game on Warfare is to play on PUGs then you are admitting the game is broken.

It isn't, but it can be the easiest/fastest way for most people to learn how to use and counter the orb properly... and to see that WAR is not only about the orb. In fact I play Warfare pretty much in old ONS style, i.e. I rarely or never use the orb. Still I can do my bit in a match and it doesn't feel like "Orbfare" at all. I play ONS - I destroy and build nodes and if I see an enemy orb carrier, I kill him. Simple as that. The only way to dislike this new element is being too crappy to kill the orb carrier, losing games and hence being depressed, while totally overrating that single factor in the game (the orb). :>

[Benfica]

Last game I played was Avalanche. After being pounded and our core being at less than 40, we destroyed the barricade. We managed to build our prime and the side nodes. We were then attacking mid and draining their prime. I fought my *** off defending ours against vipers, 1 scavenger, 2 guys, etc...

They came with the Orb, built the node and killed our core just a bit before we managed to drain theirs with the tentacle.

So, destroying the barricade, launching the avalanche, building our prime and defending it, fighting for and building the other nodes, attacking mid, and draining their prime, all this was a waste of time.

[D2F[Leo]]

...

Bad teamplay, as usually. A single guy at the prime could have killed the orb carrier. And duh... guess how hard it would have been in stalemate-ONS to get your prime back in the beginning. ;] To me that rather sounds like a gg tbh, you were very close to a hard-earned comeback, but eventually lost due to the usual carelessness.

[Rob.JW]

Sorry Rob, but if you are saying the only way to get a good game on Warfare is to play on PUGs then you are admitting the game is broken.

No, it's saying the general public server is overcrowded and of a low skill level (as a team) hence saying the game is 'broken' based on a 24 or 32p server is just shortsighted. I'm not going to claim cod4 is broken based on the 54p servers ¬_¬

[Benfica]

Bad teamplay, as usually.

Was all that effort bad teamplay ?

A single guy at the prime could have killed the orb carrier.

No, because he didn't come alone.

And duh... guess how hard it would have been in stalemate-ONS to get your prime back in the beginning. ;]

We didn't use the orb, but the avalanche. And on this map, get the side nodes and you can drain their prime anyway.

To me that rather sounds like a gg tbh, you were very close to a hard-earned comeback, but eventually lost due to the usual carelessness.

Leo, are you a defender? If so, please help me. I'm usually the guy that stays behind defending the prime. Hope to see you soon ingame

[Luseferous]

... and to see that WAR is not only about the orb. In fact I play Warfare pretty much in old ONS style, i.e. I rarely or never use the orb. Still I can do my bit in a match and it doesn't feel like "Orbfare" at all. I play ONS - I destroy and build nodes and if I see an enemy orb carrier, I kill him. Simple as that. The only way to dislike this new element is being too crappy to kill the orb carrier, losing games and hence being depressed, while totally overrating that single factor in the game (the orb). :>

I agree one hundred percent with this. The orb is not a problem for warfare, It can be mildly annoying if you have done all the hard work clearing and be taking out a node to have a carrier swan in and grab the glory, buts thats about as broken as it gets.

[D2F[Leo]]

Was all that effort bad teamplay ?

No, but leaving the node alone was.

No, because he didn't come alone.

Then you need more defenders, huh? :P

We didn't use the orb, but the avalanche. And on this map, get the side nodes and you can drain their prime anyway.

Avalanche, aha! So if that isn't something special about Warfare... ^^ Seriously, I bet in ONS you wouldn't have got the prime back for a single second.

Leo, are you a defender? If so, please help me. I'm usually the guy that stays behind defending the prime. Hope to see you soon ingame

I'm the one rushing into the latest front nodes, preferably with lots of Shock and AVRiL ammo, you should know. :> I defend when I see that nobody else is doing it though... maybe I would have used the orb to defend our prime in that match. And nice to hear that you're a defender - these are the silent heroes I need to get enemy primes.

[3leggedFreak]

I'm just afraid they've done to ONS/WAR what they did to CTF with 2k4, PUG's will not save the game. I agree with some of what halfdane say, but I wont request any game play changes because it's too late and will never happen. It's good they changed the name because there isn't much onslaught (the meaning of the word, not the gametype) left in there imo. I'm happy for the people who manage to enjoy the game and hope nodes will stay in UT, even though I personally feel a lot of the fun-factor is gone(not only because of the orb).