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    Opinions on VCTF

    I'm planning a VCTF map right now, so I'm interested in hearing what people feel makes a good VCTF match and what pitfalls I should avoid in order to produce something that's actually entertaining to play on. And opinions on how well it works as a gametype in general.

    So do you think it's one of UT3's better additions? Which maps seem best for it and why?

    #2
    i like maps where both sites have the same faction vehicles.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by MTL View Post
      i like maps where both sites have the same faction vehicles.
      thats actually a very good point.

      there might be a way to pick and choose certain vehicles from each faction that ballence each other out but as it stands Necris seems to have the upper hand. those vehicles jsut seem to have twice the power and twice the mobility of the Axon vehicles

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Setheran View Post
        I'm planning a VCTF map right now, so I'm interested in hearing what people feel makes a good VCTF match and what pitfalls I should avoid in order to produce something that's actually entertaining to play on. And opinions on how well it works as a gametype in general.

        So do you think it's one of UT3's better additions? Which maps seem best for it and why?
        A good vCTF map is one with difficult shortcuts, so you can either make skilled single on foot caps and one with good grappeling options (Raptor, Fury, etc)

        Comment


          #5
          Dont do any necris vs axon indeed. That doesnt work.

          Try to go for a fastpaced map where you can have a good fast flagruns but also a good chance of returns and maybe require some grapple-backup. The key to a good vCTF (this counts for every CTF kind of gametype) is balance.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MTL View Post
            i like maps where both sites have the same faction vehicles.
            Same, to an extent. I'd like to see custom maps utilizing a mixture of both vehicle sets, depending on what suits it best... but similar vehicles on both teams.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Harmatia View Post
              I'd like to see custom maps utilizing a mixture of both vehicle sets,
              vctf-slax][ does that.
              Each side has a raptor, a scorpion, hellbender, scavenger and viper.

              Comment


                #8
                a good vctf map is a map with avril ammo. and easy to grab avril. i don't like playing for an hour because someone camped a tank inside the flag area and because i'm out of avril. also try to focus your map on fast vehicles like manta or vipers. and not put too much tanks or other slow vehicles. because the odds are they will most likely stay camping and create stalemates.

                Comment


                  #9
                  you need to find a ballence that works for the map. yes heavy vehicles camp sometimes but don't put 3 mantas in each base. the manta is very powerful and (until the patch i hope) basically silent. don't go overboard

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I partly agree with SpineShank. The biggest problem that can happen in VCTF is a stalemate due to the fact that the vehicles are either fast or tough, but never both, making offence much harder than defence.

                    However, I disagree that the answer is to put in fast vehicles and Avrils. I think it is better to ensure that there are paths between the bases that cannot be traversed by vehicles, and that vehicles cannot sit inside or bombard the flag room.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by InvadrZIM View Post
                      you need to find a ballence that works for the map. yes heavy vehicles camp sometimes but don't put 3 mantas in each base. the manta is very powerful and (until the patch i hope) basically silent. don't go overboard
                      I am quoting you because I love Invader Zim

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I'm currently in the process of building a vctf map too, set in a small city block - the flags in a pair of abandoned garages, with a small inner-city park between the two bases.


                        Here's some of the general rules I've picked up while mapping for vctf under 2K4.

                        * Make your map smaller. Seriously, once you've got a nice layout in your head, try to shrink it by about 80/75 percent.
                        When you see them in the Ed, the more popular vctf maps tend to be smaller than you imagine they ought to be when you're playing them.

                        * Make it possible for a player to spend the whole game dismounted, and yet still be able to have an impact on the game, either as defender, or flag-runner.
                        Support-runners are an integral part of the game, but you can't legislate (as it were) for them, as long as you cater for foot-caps as well as vehicle-caps, then players can choose a role that suits them.

                        * Don't be afraid of a ridiculously simple layout.
                        Some of the most popular maps are so basic it seems silly, but because the mapper knew how to lay out his vehicles, spawns & powerups, they played like a dream (Alleys, Redrooms, Suspense (to a certain degree), Battleline, etc..)
                        You don't need to go overboard with a million different routes & maze-like layouts if you don't want to, as long as what you've got is fun to play on.

                        * If it plays well, even a 100% BSP map will get support (Binary Space, Basically, etc..).
                        Gameplay over looks might be a cliché but that's because it's true.

                        * A map where both flags spend more time away from their base is generally more fun than one where it's never taken at all.
                        In general, try to make it easier to get the flag than to defend it - this goes back to the stalemate point mentioned by several other poster above.

                        * Players *will* discover ways to tank-camp that you never even imagined when you built the map.
                        This is as about as close to gospel-truth as it can get.

                        * Last of all, enjoy yourself. It's no good starting out with the best of intentions only to run out of enthusiasm later on - I know from experience that sometimes the later stages can become a chore - this means that you end up cutting corners or taking the easy way out when given a certain task, so if you need to, break it up into sections that you can deal with one at a time - it might take a bit longer, but then again the game only just came out & UT4 isn't going to come along any time soon.


                        Hope some of this help matie, & best of luck. Pics when they're ready please.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thanks a lot for the tips. I may post some concept sketches in the map forums later to see what people think.

                          The main thing that spurred this thread was a game I joined on Corruption tonight, where half of one team essentially agreed to let the other win because both were sick of the map and just wanted to move on. It was probably as much the fault of the players (who were likely too numerous and too defensive) as it was the map, but it showed how easily a seemingly good map can wind up being one big frustration. After that it was on to Suspense, which was just the same as it's always been and really drove home the need for some new and interesting levels to play on.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            oh and i luv ramps
                            better spawn points or have players spawn in safer areas...or something

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BigJim View Post
                              I'm currently in the process of building a vctf map too, set in a small city block - the flags in a pair of abandoned garages, with a small inner-city park between the two bases.


                              Here's some of the general rules I've picked up while mapping for vctf under 2K4.

                              * Make your map smaller. Seriously, once you've got a nice layout in your head, try to shrink it by about 80/75 percent.
                              When you see them in the Ed, the more popular vctf maps tend to be smaller than you imagine they ought to be when you're playing them.

                              * Make it possible for a player to spend the whole game dismounted, and yet still be able to have an impact on the game, either as defender, or flag-runner.
                              Support-runners are an integral part of the game, but you can't legislate (as it were) for them, as long as you cater for foot-caps as well as vehicle-caps, then players can choose a role that suits them.

                              * Don't be afraid of a ridiculously simple layout.
                              Some of the most popular maps are so basic it seems silly, but because the mapper knew how to lay out his vehicles, spawns & powerups, they played like a dream (Alleys, Redrooms, Suspense (to a certain degree), Battleline, etc..)
                              You don't need to go overboard with a million different routes & maze-like layouts if you don't want to, as long as what you've got is fun to play on.

                              * If it plays well, even a 100% BSP map will get support (Binary Space, Basically, etc..).
                              Gameplay over looks might be a cliché but that's because it's true.

                              * A map where both flags spend more time away from their base is generally more fun than one where it's never taken at all.
                              In general, try to make it easier to get the flag than to defend it - this goes back to the stalemate point mentioned by several other poster above.

                              * Players *will* discover ways to tank-camp that you never even imagined when you built the map.
                              This is as about as close to gospel-truth as it can get.

                              * Last of all, enjoy yourself. It's no good starting out with the best of intentions only to run out of enthusiasm later on - I know from experience that sometimes the later stages can become a chore - this means that you end up cutting corners or taking the easy way out when given a certain task, so if you need to, break it up into sections that you can deal with one at a time - it might take a bit longer, but then again the game only just came out & UT4 isn't going to come along any time soon.


                              Hope some of this help matie, & best of luck. Pics when they're ready please.
                              Quoted for truth in all regards.

                              Comment

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