Warfare too vehicle dominated?

[Hedge-o-Matic]

Avrils are fine the way they are. Mappers who place too many avrils ruin the balance of the map. In UT2, everyone and their grandmother was firing avrils non-stop. A Raptor goes up, and instantly six avrils rise to meet it. Of course, seventeen shock rifles open up at the same time obliterating it before they hit.

UT3 is way, way better.

When everyone has an avril, the gameplay starts to suck. I'm always on foot in Warfare, and love to take out vehicles. But I also don't let the score get to me too much. If you're interested in the score, don't try to boost it by fragging. Try taking and healing nodes, and so on. Way better way to pump up the score, and win the game while you're at it.

[Moloko]

The shock is nerfed way too much , around 35 damage for primary now to 55 in 2004, shooting shock primary at flying vehicles is now useless unless they're heavily damaged already as you'll probably run out of ammo or be attacked before you bring it down. After they reduced the rate of fire ,then made the shock ball smaller/faster the nerfing was enough, to reduce primary damage from 55 , making it 3 nerfs was a nerf too far IMO and too big a sop to non hitscan players. The shock ball knockback change in the patch is a bit of an admission of this I think. I agree that these new avrils are too good speedwise to be everywhere- they're one of the good refresh changes considering the faster vehicles.

[Tenebre]

On foot player must have ALWAYS avrils in his weaponnery and vehicle's domination depends of maps but i agree that more ammo are needed a bit everywhere on maps. Moreover the fact that dodge jump has been removed, make the on foot player easier to kill by vehicles too.

Before the patches, balance on foot / vehicles was clearly in favor of vehicles, after the patches, balance is better, but not as good as the ONS one imo
That bother me a lot in warfare now, is the abuse of minigun, for exemple on Floodgate, at floodgate node, all the last games i played were a total stinger spam fest... simply horrible.
More and more people use the stinger and it sad for games, no fun in it (imo)

Edit: I agree with Moloko, our good old shockrifle should be stronger against vehicles...

[D2F[Leo]]

But I also don't let the score get to me too much. If you're interested in the score, don't try to boost it by fragging. Try taking and healing nodes, and so on. Way better way to pump up the score, and win the game while you're at it.

In fact healing and destroying nodes is the key to have constantly big scores in Warfare. ;] 1 point per frag? Then I rather go and cap that node for 6 points - and kill the two guys lurking around there.

Also it seems to be a common misconception that fragging and node building/destroying are two different ways of playing. Actually you can only find the action (and frag oppurtunities) at nodes. I hear and see people complain about lamers that rack up big scores by running poor newbies over all the time in their imba Mantas to rack up scores... BS tbh.

Just for the hell of it, try to play a game without building nodes, just look for people to run over and see what kind of score you get in the end. The whining about Manta lamers (and hence the accusation of "score pushing") just results from the frustration of people that don't pay attention to what's happening around them and that don't pick up AVRiLs.

It is simple: Nearly everyone roughly knows how to play this gametype. Differences in score and general success simply depend on how well you can combine node tactics (and going for the right nodes) and fragging (which is supposed to keep you alive so that you can go on with the nodes). Anyone who plays different than that, i.e. all the people that are messing around "off-piste" (lamers and their victims) are doing something wrong (excluding defenders).

I forgot what this thread originally was about, but it felt like this had to be clarified.

Btw: Just he first passage was directed to you, Hedge-o-Matic. ;P

[Masklin]

Vehicles add potential and additional dimensions to the bloodsport, remove them not. Like Yoda I speak, and like Yoda's younglings you listen will.

[Moloko]

We know that 2k4 had people who were only interested in spawnkilling in mantas they'll be sorted in time as good Ut2004 players learn the maps weapons I only started UT3 online 3 days ago, they seem to be prominent in this than in Ut2004 that is all I am saying.

[Shubop]

I haven't had big problems with vehicles. Usually when it's a slow vehicle like goliath or similar, I run around it and shoot 3 rockets with rocket launcher in spirals at it. When it's mantas I either use flak or shock, but if they're coming straight at me I load 3 rockets into the rocket launcher and shoot them in a spiral when the manta is close enough.

Funniest thing that happened to me with vehicles thought was when I got the Orb in Warfare and wasa moving towards the center node in Floodgate on a hoverboard, then suddenly a Nightshade runs me over .

[iron12]

One factor is how good your team is at grabbing the AVRIL. Lots of people run off without grabbing it. If everyone on your team grabbed it before they ran off to battle a lot of these vehicles would be taken down in short order.

[Moloko]

First day I played I found it hard, now I try to always make sure I at least start with an avril -up close I use the shock balls to deflect mantas like in 2004 or combos if they come straight at me. As for tanks dodge around using flak if I can get in close, with the main gun chasing me by moving behind it, it is getting easier. My one problem is mainly with the teleporting delay and avril ammo problem, plus I think quite a few 2k4 players new to UT3 forget about the orb's critical importance.

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

so.. uh where is the avril ammo on suspense?
I never realized there was a 5:1 avril ammo limit per player on that map
wheres my weapon throw or ammo for it? with weapon stay on, do i have to die to get another 5?

I think that just with the abundance of ammo or the ability to throw weapons, avrils would become too dominant even if there were few placements of avril weapon stations(lockers, weapon bases)

[D2F[Leo]]

No one is saying they rack up big scores

Maybe not here in this thread or not explicitly (anyway I didn't address this to anyone specific), but it's an opinion you find quite often ingame and in several existing threads on the Manta and score topic. :P

Dunno why you sound a bit offended, but I didn't answer to anything you maybe said in this thread, no worries.

Btw: Shock primary does 45 damage, exactly the same as in 2k4. Just the core damage is increased (55 to 40 in 2k4, I think).

[Scheibenwischer]

I never found Avril-ammo at Suspence.
But special at this Map (my no.1 Favorite from V-CTF-Maps) i think it doesnt bother that mutch, you dont have to drive half a mile to the Action with new Vehicles.

Btw, whats the Avril-alt Fire for? Some Guys pointing with this Laser at me while guiding their Missile to my beloved Raptor.
It`s not necessary to bring the Rocket to your Target, but it`s like a Sign who sais " here i am, kill me!"

Btw2: The Avril is waaay the best Weapon against Nightshades, usually, you dont see them, but the Avril will tell you where it is.

[Moloko]

Maybe not here in this thread or not explicitly (anyway I didn't address this to anyone specific), but it's an opinion you find quite often ingame and in several existing threads on the Manta and score topic. :P

Dunno why you sound a bit offended, but I didn't answer to anything you maybe said in this thread, no worries.

Btw: Shock primary does 45 damage, exactly the same as in 2k4. Just the core damage is increased (55 to 40 in 2k4, I think).

Not offended,sorry if you got that idea -just trying to say I 'm not noob(at least in 2k4, maybe in UT3 for a while)
Yes you are right 3 hits for a kill in ut2004 from full 100 health =45 my mistake I think it is now 35(?) tho- still 3 hits on normal health for the kill, but with slower fire rate,at least the faster core is a more useful and viable in its own right now , even if it is harder to combo while moving.

[Masklin]

No, prim fire still 45, secondary fire 55.

[Jagnot]

Warfare, like CTF, is an objective based map. It will almost ALWAYS have less fragging.

Just saying.

(I'm fine with it..)