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I know you're trying to help, but....

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    I know you're trying to help, but....

    Hehe, Okay. So one of the *surprising* things I've enjoyed about UT3 is the single player campaign. I never thought playing with bots would be so much fun -- but it's really a fun way to pass time with a perfect ping, where you can easily dominate, and simply space out without having to be ultra competitive.

    I -- of course -- am using a PS3 for unreal. Back in the day it would be a PC all the way, but I like to sit back on a couch with a 50" TV and enjoy a more casual experience these days. (actually, unreal's multiplayer is still pretty intense especially considering a console)

    With that said, my lovely teammates are starting to get on my nerves.
    Here are some things that make me wish friendly fire was an option.

    It's great that my teammate have enough AI to understand the significance of an orb. Unfortunately, they only understand the importance of picking it up. And then running around with it aimlessly. And then somehow avoiding death. Leaving me without an orb, without the possibility of getting an orb, and somehow hoping that if I fire enough rockets at my teammate bot it will slowly guide him towards the node.

    Sometimes I see on the map my 'mate going to the correct spot. He's right by the node, and I'm thinking "YES! HE'S DONE IT!" Then about 60 seconds go by, and he is neither dead, or has succesfully captured the node. At this point I have given up waiting for the orb to respawn, and check out the action myself.

    He seems to be avoiding death. There is that one evil enemy with a blaster as my teammate hides behind a rock and starts moving back forth between almost getting the node, and then running away.

    And then there's the time when a teammate and I both spawn near the orb at the same time. I run as fast as I can to get it first but somehow, the AI's superior knowledge of nuances to beating me to the spot prevail. And I am left with nothing.

    Oh, and the time's where I see my teammate simply in the spot waiting for the orb to respawn. He ain't moving. And damnit, I guess I won't be seeing it too soon.

    And there is nothing quite like trying to protect your teammate as he carries the orb to a node while you haplessly watch him walk ever so slowly while you can't help but wonder "WHY DOESN'T HE USE THE **** HOVERBOARD"

    It might seem wrong, but it just feels pretty **** good when all of a sudden he gets splattered into a million pieces by a rocket leaving you to run to the orb and finally capture the node.

    2.] When I get my Flag, you always tell me you've got my back, but you don't.
    yeah, this doesn't need an explanation.

    3.] One of my favorite things is when teammate after teammate says "I'm under heavy fire, I need backup!" Like say, all 3 at once. Meanwhile you are fighting two guys at once. And usually this comes after they die.
    You'll see the "so and so dropped the flag" or "so and so dropped the orb" followed by this command.

    Oh okay, thanks.

    4.] When I get killed carrying an orb or a flag, it'd be nice if you picked it up.

    I see that you got my back, and it does appear that you are following me. But when I get blindsided by a flak shot and die, right near either my own base, or the node I'm trying to capture, and I KNOW you are right there... why can't you just pick up the flag and orb and then do it yourself.

    I sometimes hope this is going to happen, but it always plays out like this (in my imagination). My two teammates are confronted by one enemy with 10 health and no armor. They both decide what to do, and decide that they should kill the enemy first before picking up the item.
    They then proceed to attempt to attack the enemy but get caught trying to maneuver between a rock and a platform.
    As they are stuck, the enemy uses his default weapon to slowly blast one of them away.
    The other teammate then decides that it's now or never and picks up the orb/flag and slowly proceeds to do the correct thing.
    By this time, 3 or so enemies have come and proceed to obliterate my teammate within seconds. Flag has been returned. Orb has been destroyed. Time to go back to the beginning.

    5.] And there are so many more things. Like how I wish perhaps, that my teammate could use one of those vehicles to protect me when I got the flag or orb. You know, since I can't get in one myself.

    Or when I need to go a great distance with the flag/orb, and hope to hitch a ride by grappling on the back of one vehicle. But instead of going to the spot I need, my teammate just kind of moves around a 10 x 10 foot area, and I think, ****, if I hadn't tried to grapple, I would have been there by now.

    Well, I guess it's not so bad. I don't expect some crazy advanced AI in this game. And multiplayer is where these modes truly flourish. But I can't help but poke fun of how the AI breaks down in these complex gameplay modes.

    It would be one thing if they just ran around aimlessly shooting people. But its the fact that they actually try to help and actually hinder my progress more than help. Like if they never went for an orb, this mode might be much easier.

    But overall, I really like the single player campaign mode more than I could ever expect from a mode entirely based upon bots. This really speaks a lot to how well the level design is (in warfare and CTF modes) and how balanced the enemy vehicles are. Oh, and it also helps when the enemy gets an extra 3 or so teammates to make it a bit harder. Or when they get advanced vehicles.

    These are usually quite fun.

    So thanks epic for this wonderful game.

    (P.S. one of these days I would love to see a game like unreal approach a single player game the way valve does with half life. I know that's not epic's style (and no... i don't want a million jumping puzzles and physics based balancing beam things) but it would be cool to have an in depth mode like this. Especially if such a mode could be added via a mod. Half life is great and all, but, it's not the same when it's really using somewhat old technology combined and hacked together in order to make a linear single player mode. I want a truly great engine doing this.

    I also hope that one of these days I see unreal levels that are totally physics based and allow me to manipulate every aspect of the environment. Obviously, I only have the PS3 version, and I have no idea if the physics based levels that were included with the PC game are in the PS3 version (are they?). I guess it's a step in the right direction.

    And anyone who uses the PS3 feel free to add me as a friend.
    PSN: dansmeek.


    There is always the infamous times when the bot grabs the flag and gets extremely close to your base and im going "w00t we about to score!" only to see them get on a hoverboard and get stuck going back and forth between an area. Very annoying when I have to sit there one cap away from winning the game.


      as well as the Torlan bots who all jump into the Levi only to get it stuck in the valley half of the time


        There should be a voice command "Leave that f$@*@# orb alone." Or enable team damage on any bots carrying orbs... simple and to the point =)

        With bots I have to play without orbs. The AI is simply too retarded. They can never capture anything, they always let the opposing side capture everything if I'm away, they never sacrifice themselves if the orb is 2 feet away from our Prime Node, so I have too.... Orbs + AI make warfare hell.

        The deathmatch and CTF AI is amazing, though. Guess I can't complain too much; the n00bs online aren't much better at warfare.


          that was a truly entertaining read..
          especially this part at which i busted out laughing

          2.] When I get my Flag, you always tell me you've got my back, but you don't.
          yeah, this doesn't need an explanation.
          ai at the 2nd pass thru Torlan is completely useless and my team is outnumbered.
          where are they all?

          and im playing the PC version.


            hehe, so that's good i'm not the only one experiences these problems. however, i don't think i would have understood warfare if not for the pisspoor ai. i think if they had captured all the nodes and beaten that first level for me.... i would have never understood the way to "dominate" that mode.
            I have no idea if warfare is going to be huge online (i know other games the territorial/zone areas have been where lesser skilled players go, and the hardcores stick to team dm, or ctf). it's good because it requires a hell of a lot of skill and strategy, and really good teamplay can make it a lot of fun.
            today i was in a warfare as both opposing teams slowly depleted eachothers master core. it would litterally go like this.

            it was back and forth the whole way, and at the end the fact that a single rocket would win the match.... oo. intense.
            and teammates were playing smart, using vehicles to let me grapple on. letting us take turns using the orbs. someone protecting the base, someone getting ready to attack the main core, as another tries to capture the final orb.
            it works well like this. especially with vehicles -- and is the most fun in ut3.
            i just hope it continues to gain players, cuz i haven't had this much fun in multiplayer in a long long long time (i'm talking back in q2).

            with that said... i do say to myself (in my head) things like "way to go dawg" or "good job" or "hell yeah" when my teammate bots actually perform. like when they actually capture a flag. or kill themselves to destroy an orb, or say, protect me with a vehicle.

            ONE TIME, i even had a bot wait for me to get in the same vehicle as he was in. and he drove, and i blew stuff up. and he drove pretty **** good. i was like, wow!

            so there are those moments.

            however, there is nothing like the feeling of a match on the line where you desperately need to capture a node before they destroy your core, and as your about to grab the orb, somehow, your teammate spawns at the base, and quickly grabs it as you desperately hoverboard jump, shoot rockets, etc. at your 'mate to try to stop him.

            you just have to hope that somehow, he finds a rocket heading towards his way immediately.


              Maybe epic made your AI so bad because they want you to get frustrated and go online for better team mates.


                3.]One of my favorite things is when teammate after teammate says "I'm under heavy fire, I need backup!" Like say, all 3 at once. Meanwhile you are fighting two guys at once. And usually this comes after they die.
                You'll see the "so and so dropped the flag" or "so and so dropped the orb" followed by this command.

                Oh okay, thanks.
                Usually, I hear "Blue flag returned." Followed immediately by the former flag carrier saying, "I'm under heavy fire!" or "I got the flag!"

                2.] When I get my Flag, you always tell me you've got my back, but you don't.
                yeah, this doesn't need an explanation.
                I will be taking the flag back to base on the hoverboard. My teammate will say, "I've got your back!" Only to jump right in FRONT of me at the last second and stop me cold long enough to get taken out with a headshot from behind. Thanks dude. Then if I watch before respawning, that bot will usually leave the flag, attack the other team and immediately suffer a quick death. Thus insuring a "Blue flag returned" announcement.

                In VCTF map Corruption, I was just off the end of a bridge, just at the edge of a short drop, not standing in the road, hurling avril volleys at the oncoming assault. When I suddenly was being pushed off the drop by a bot on my team driving a Hellbender through me and over the drop. If that was not bad enough, there was a bot in a Scorpion right behind him driving the same path! Dude! The roads over there!

                This game (pc) does make me laugh, tho! Such fun!

                Excellent post dansmeek!


                  okay, something i totally forgot.
                  let's say, you kill an opponent bot with a rocket, but, you have such low health and you shoot so close that you end up dying through a combination of the self damage, and the blaster from the opponent.

                  isn't it great when you hear the "Your programming is inferior" or "It has been decided that you will lose" from the guy/girl you just killed.

                  I mean, it's one thing to talk smack, but, these bots got to learn the ways of the rope.
                  Like, you can't talk smack when you don't really kill someone.
                  Or, if I fire a rocket at bot, and bot fires a rocket at me, and we both die simulatenously, it is just not right for that bot to talk smack.
                  Especially when they can do it so easily. It's just like *snap* [talk smack]. For me (playing on the ps3) I have to go, left arrow, down arrow, left arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow, x button. an d then i won't even hit the right smack talk so i have to do it all over again.

                  at this point i've already been killed standing still twice.

                  this is a completely unfair advantage. and it drives me crazy!

                  PS. anyone who has beaten the campaign mode..... don't you think the final 1on1 DM battle with that chick is pretty hardcore. I mean.... she says some pretty mean ****. She's talking about my family, how I suck, how I'm nothing. It's like out of control. It really put me into another mode where I said "screw that if she has full armor and I just got this **** biorifle. I gonna kill her now!"

                  She is MEAN!

                  And I felt quite good when I put her in her place.
                  But it still wasn't enough.......


                    Akasha was tough in the final battle. I never did get that dam shield belt once. I beat her 15 to 13 with time running out. Time running out in a fight to the death?? It woulda been cool to just play that one to whoever got the frag limit first, no time limit.

                    Now, when I play VCTF and use a Necris character, she usually ends up on my team. I play with it set to adept and she will cap that flag. I found in TDM, and you use a Necris character, she is usually your wingman. If she ends up on the other team, she's tough.

                    Agree the bots talking smack when they don't really get the kill is BS.

                    I never realized to talk smack with the PS3 is so hosed! OMG!
                    Originally posted by dansmeek
                    For me (playing on the ps3) I have to go, left arrow, down arrow, left arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow, down arrow, x button. an d then i won't even hit the right smack talk so i have to do it all over again.


                      i would *LOVE* all the bots to play this way. My guess is they put some extra's into her logic for the single player death match on that particular stage.

                      Cuz she knows the correct areas of the map to protect. She gets the quad-damage as her number 1 priority. And she is sneaky about getting it (i only caught her once when she was f'd crouched with no attempt to attack as she grabbed the quad). Her ammo accuracy is slightly unrealistic (botty). As in, she is accurate with weapons like rockets, chaingun, quickfire types.....

                      But she doesn't know how to keep you in a certain area. i.e. it's easy to escape because she is aiming to KILL YOU. a smart player would place rockets so that you'd have a very difficult time leaving the area, as the began getting closer to you, at which point, she'd change weapons and get you with faster shooting weapons. (just trying to give epic some suggestions here).

                      but i really liked her AI (like AI, not, software advantages). She really plays the level like she is trying to dominate the level, which is rare for a bot.

                      Hopefully one day we will see bots like this without having to have concept specific programming. As in, a bot, lets say with "poor auto-aiming" that could still dominate a level through strategy. Because it is possible, just very hard.

                      And yeah, I beat her with time running out as well. I got up something like 10-2 very quickly. And thought that it somehow got harder after her 10th death. At this point, she became more aggressive killing me with her low-damage, but bot-aimed weapons. And she immediately got all armors and sealed the quad from me. Very impressive, and got about 2 kills to 1 or 2 death (of me) the rest of the way until time ran out. Whenever I attempted to regain control of the level I lost. If it was a real human player, I would have simply ran and hid the rest of the match and tried to get cheap kills (hehe).