Defence vs. Camping

[Leak]

Where's my cheeseburger?

[shot]http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/i-can-has-cheezburger-you-can-has-laptop.jpg[/shot]

np: Dominik Eulberg - Rückenschwimmzipper (Bionik)

[Captain Sarcastic]

All is fair in (love and) war. I used to get called a camper when I would wait in the flagroom. To the opposite team I was "camping", but to me I was acting as last ditch, backstop defence. Even if three of them got in and killed me, I would still respawn and either chase them or intercept in midfield. If I can do it with a tank-shell, so much the better. If the other team is really attacking hard, you can get very high scores just because you end up killing a lot of attackers.

Heck, the biggest whining is from the guys complaining about AVRiLs spoiling their manta runs. You want to "cheat" and sit on the manta wing, you can hardly complain when I'm waiting for you with a missile for your ***.

Some people just seemed to think I should just let the opposing team walk in unmolested and take our flag. The game is not just about which flag runners can go back and forth between the opposing bases the quickest. In case you haven't noticed, the game actually has two objectives - getting the enemy's flag, and keeping your own flag safe.

Having said that, spawn camping is generally not cool, but it is a valid tactic to make the enemy keep their heads down, harassing them and suppressing their ability to defend against your attackers. If you're annoying the other team and they are spending their time chasing you, they are not chasing your flag runners.

However, I have seen players who do nothing to aid their team, but merely spray spiders or tank shells into a enemy base simply to rack up their own scores, often when you can't even destroy a core or get a flag. Those are the true campers.

[Kaidence]

To be honest - if it's an official match or just a public, everyone can do everything they want within game rules to win.

[DeMAD1]

If you can do it in the game then it was meant to be done, so people should think about not complaining about things that are meant to be done...
(with the exception of gliches,etc)

Unless as stated above me its in a tournament where certain RULES may apply to the matches...

-DeMAD1

[bclagge]

Any tactic that annoys the **** out of you is an effective tactic and should be adopted immediately. If you announce your annoyance then your enemy will keep doing it. If you refuse to do it you are a scrub.

Don't know what a scrub is? Learn how to play to win:
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

If you're playing to win, then sometimes a "cheap" tactic is the best one you can employ. It just depends on the situation. Spawn vehicle killing constantly isn't going to benefit you much. Doing it to prevent a tail when you're running with the flag will be extremely beneficial. Every tactic has a counter, especially if someone is predictably using the same tactic over and over.

Note, however, that servers often enforce their own rules.

[-$tarBoy-]

anti-camp mutator ^^

if someone in note,flag-area whit a vehicle like a quater range 20*20 feets a counter will start und after 5 sec no leaving the zone..bääm

some camping is nice but parking the tank on a flag is a bit lame

kinda battle royale...it will be a nice mutator^^

[Captain Sarcastic]

anti-camp mutator ^^

if someone in note,flag-area whit a vehicle like a quater range 20*20 feets a counter will start und after 5 sec no leaving the zone..bääm

some camping is nice but parking the tank on a flag is a bit lame

Sounds like you're a manta-run *****. They don't like anything sitting on the flag blocking them, and they always want to be in and out of the flag zone very quickly. You'd like a mutator to keep the flag clear for your and your manta-running chums wouldn't you?

Sticking a vehicle on a flag is a valid tactic to slow down fast flag attacks. If you were any good at anything except sitting on the manta wing, you'd get in there and steal the vehicle, driving it back to your base before putting it on your own flag. That's what I call style.

As a defender, I love those guys who drive vehicles into the flag area. When they get out, I steal their hellbenders and kill them with their own ride. They are most surprised when they grab my flag and find they can't get back into their vehicle and someone is shooting at them from inside.

[EffeKt]

How would you define defense and camping? If they are along the same lines of 'protecting' something, that requires to be in one spot or spots for a majority of the time.

[Scheibenwischer]

Stone-Scissor-Paper, there is a Counter for every Tactic.
But usually, there are Lame tactics too, for example V-CTF-Suspense: There are two Respawnpoints, one in the Big House near the Flag, and the Second in the smaller House, besides the Tank and the Raptor. You can not entry the big House with Vehicles, so it is quite a save Place. But the small House is not Protected, so an Opponent Manta can kill everyone who`s just got Respawned. That really sucks. And the only way to get rid of this ******* is a lucky hit with the Tank or a Avril.
Thanks to the Rooftop, the Ultimate Weapon against a Manta, the Reaper, can not help this Time...

[UT3sysop]

How would you define defense and camping? If they are along the same lines of 'protecting' something, that requires to be in one spot or spots for a majority of the time.

Agreed! It's Called Capture The Flag... Not .... Give The Flag!

I camp on the flag sometimes! Dont Like it? .... Tough S!!! deal with it! Like I said Earlier.... I play defense and defence only! and I will use any and all options available to me to make sure people cant snag the flag from my team!!

Muhahahahahaha

[Captain Sarcastic]

How would you define defense and camping? If they are along the same lines of 'protecting' something, that requires to be in one spot or spots for a majority of the time.

Well technically a lot of people don't know what camping is because they use the term incorrectly.

Originally camping was when you set up fairly statically around some particularly attractive spot (such as a superhealth or double damage), and just killed people who came to that spot looking for the powerup/health/whatever. It's primarily something that comes from deathmatch/PVP style of games, when all you had to do was kill other players.

Now we have team games with objectives (such as VCTF/CTF/WAR), and people use the term "camping" for anyone that stays in one spot. It's absurd to call someone a camper when they are defending a game critical objective when one of the key parts of that game is to defend those same objectives. You can't "camp your own flag" when you are stopping the other team from taking it and scoring. You might as well berate the opposing team for entering your base in the first place.

Does a goalie camp his goal when saving shots in soccer? Does a race driver camp his line when he blocks someone from passing? Does a security guard camp his bank when he protects the vault? Of course not, they are doing what they are supposed to be doing!

I can see how you could still call someone a camper if they setup somewhere in the same style as I described above for a deathmatch game, but in team/objective based games, that would actually disadvantage your team. While a player is camping somewhere on the map, they are not helping their team either capture or defend the game objectives.

That's the real difference between camping and defending. If you're helping your team by completing or defending objectives, then you are not camping. If you are disrupting or suppressing the enemy, then you are not camping. If you are sniping/bombing or otherwise abusing the enemy to the point where they are incandescent with rage, constantly chasing you, having to run around to pick up weapons instead of blocking or chasing your flag runners, you are not camping. If your enemies prefer to spend time whining about your actions instead of playing or getting their flag back, then you are not camping. If you are making the opposing team waste time running across the map for you to kill them time and time again in your flag room, while you can be killed and respawn fast enough to take them down whilst still at your flag, you are not camping.

You are merely choosing an effective style of play that the opposing team is not able to deal with in any meaningful way, except by whining and *****ing about "camping" like crying little girls.

[Reise]

Defense or not, putting spider mines in the enemy base spawn is downright low and noobish. Nothing justifies that. I can understand enemy nodes, or common pathways, but right in the spawn? It's just bad sportsmanship.

[Captain Sarcastic]

Defense or not, putting spider mines in the enemy base spawn is downright low and noobish. Nothing justifies that. I can understand enemy nodes, or common pathways, but right in the spawn? It's just bad sportsmanship.

Then you kill the *******. And do the same to his base. It's no worse than someone carpet bombing you with the SPMA. You can either chose to rise above it and stick to your own idea of sportsmanship, or you can play dirty just like they are. The player I saw who consistently did nothing but spam spiders into the opposing base (a) was the worst player, so couldn't actually kill anyone except by spamming spiders (b) wasn't helping their team, as the base was locked and everyone was out winning nodes elsewhere, and (c) was taking a player slot from someone who could have been helping, thus effectively putting their team a man down. Their team rarely won, and certainly not from anything this particular player was helping with.

If Epic didn't think it was a legitimate tactic, they would stop it. When they found out that turrets could take down ONS nodes, they simply changed the game so turrets couldn't harm nodes. When people started riding mantas (circumventing the "no flag in a manta" rule) they left it in as emergent gameplay.

When it comes right down to it, there is simply no point complaining about how anyone else plays the game within the rules set out by Epic. My best advice is "don't get mad, get even". You'll enjoy giving them a taste of their own medicine, and at the end of the day, winning the game is the sweetest revenge.

[-$tarBoy-]

Defense or not, putting spider mines in the enemy base spawn is downright low and noobish. Nothing justifies that. I can understand enemy nodes, or common pathways, but right in the spawn? It's just bad sportsmanship.

i agree...kinda spam kind of game...not very funny i say...

[JUNGLIST MOVEMENT]

Don't know what a scrub is? Learn how to play to win:
http://www.sirlin.net/Features/featu...ToWinPart1.htm

If you're playing to win, then sometimes a "cheap" tactic is the best one you can employ. It just depends on the situation. Spawn vehicle killing constantly isn't going to benefit you much. Doing it to prevent a tail when you're running with the flag will be extremely beneficial. Every tactic has a counter, especially if someone is predictably using the same tactic over and over.

Where did you find this??
This is the third time I have seen this appear on a forum

as for def vs camping..
There is no fairness in war.

UT3's game pace is too fast compared to the onslaught of 2k4
you cant camp unless you can do it well
wheres me sammich?