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Sandstorm design issue (fast, easy caps)

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    Sandstorm design issue (fast, easy caps)

    This has likely been discussed before, but I couldn't find any specific threads with search. I think it bears repeating though, since it's a huge issue with an otherwise viable, if difficult, map.

    There is a way to get up to the redeemer level from the ground in both the red and blue bases. The one from the red base is common enough that you'll see people doing it all the time on pubs. I myself gave into the temptation to try it a couple times against my better judgement, and boy did it make the other team irate, understandably. I apologize to anyone who was in that game, and as an attempt to make it right I thought I'd make this thread.

    Anyway, here's an illustration (mspaint go!)


    This requires 2 jumpboot charges to do, but if you make it up there, you're pretty much guaranteed to be home free unless a fury/viper is on your tail or you get ambushed by someone waiting for the redeemer. It was disturbingly easy to do and can rapidly win a game otherwise mired in stalemate.

    This would seem to put the red team at a huge disadvantage, but as I investigated further in instant-action I found that the blue team is actually much worse off. The one from the red base, while decidedly imbalanced, is "legit" in that the rock is both visible and solid, making logical sense that you can jump on it. On the other hand, the one in the blue base is invisible, easier to climb, and requires only 1 jumpboot charge.

    This picture shows where it is:


    You can walk right up onto it from the right side, resulting in this:


    You won't see this done on pubs much because of its obscurity, but once people start figuring it out (and they will), it could easily turn the map into a jump-boots happy 20 second cap-a-thon. With the lean selection of maps already available, it hurts pretty bad to cut one out of the rotation entirely.

    On a side note, it's possible to get up there anyway with a good piston jump and 1 jumpboot charge, but that's a whole other can of worms that could impact (get it?) several maps.

    Anyway, here's to hoping epic addresses this in an upcoming patch.

    #2
    ah so thats what if heared about was playing i believe that map today altough i alway's take another way for fast caps

    Comment


      #3
      can you get there with board?
      i remember seeing some people head that way once but always wondered where they were going and that was weeks ago...

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        #4
        Sandstorm is a great map and yes I've been guilty of capping along that path myself but it almost seemed to be the design strategy of the map since the deemer is also right there. It sucks that it basically is a quick, easy, and mostly painless cap on an otherwise rough map to navigate when playing against some good players but it almost looks intentional the way it is.

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          #5
          I found this aswell and I was about to report when I found out that its balanced.

          From both sides its just as easy to go over it. You can use a jump walldodge jump (with jumpboots ofc) at both sides and at both sides it only takes 1 bootjump. You just have to do it right. Also with the Scavenger its possible to get on at both sides, you just need the right angle.

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            #6
            yeah if its balanced each side, i.e. they both have a way up then it isnt really an exploit. its designed to be done. plus i think thats why the boots are placed further away from that area so it takes longer to get them. in a firefight i often forget myself and double jump forgetting ive got the boots and waste a boost that could have been used for things like that in vctf/ctf

            if people complain about you taking that route, they are just sore losers and moaning because they cant follow you on foot. thats where keeping a vehicle at flag point ins always a good idea

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              #7
              you can get it whit only 1 jump on both sides whitout using the unbalanced mapform and no using invisible walls.

              thats the way i like trial-maps

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                #8
                i cant see the reason for using exploits in a game. if it gains an unfair advantage then then its rediculous. as you can get to the same place using both sides its not an exploit and in no way cheating.

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                  #9
                  I find it hard to believe Sandstorm was meant to be played this way.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Xyx View Post
                    I find it hard to believe Sandstorm was meant to be played this way.
                    same here, but its not imbalanced so not really a problem.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ok its easy to go that route from either base with one use of boots from closest tower, dodge + boot jump

                      so no I don't think its an exploit... actually using the rock or invisable rock,,, just rocket their feet and blow them off they fall and die.

                      it actually makes the map quite good, the center is a choke point, and many peeps tried sniping the center, only to go wtf when the other team cap

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by mossa View Post
                        I don't think its an exploit... actually using the rock or invisable rock
                        Interesting how you mention using an invisible rock but still don't think it's an exploit.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You can piston boot jump either side straight from the ground up to the redeemer level. No need to mess with any rocks or ledges, etc. Just something the defense needs to defend IMO.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Xyx View Post
                            Interesting how you mention using an invisible rock but still don't think it's an exploit.
                            lol

                            of course you have read the thread and looked at the screen shots... by the op thats how I found out... lol

                            no pleasing some... but it don't make any difference wether you use the rocks or not you don't need to, to go that route... SO WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?

                            Its the same for both teams!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Now think about it

                              What if you didnt read this thread or saw what other players are doing?
                              This sounds as much an exploit as the 2k4 torlan tower..(heck the entire thing was an exploit, thats prolly why they changed it)

                              I remember sniping a few people off the middle section of the tower, on a ledge in the interior ceiling of the bender bridge, however it was completely accessible via the top of the tower or the jump-pad it seemed as an exploit to those who had no knowledge of how to get there.
                              It is a pretty good spot IMO. Having a clear view of the opposing teams node, base and the no-mans land in between, it was simply sniper heaven!
                              Its really hard to get to with the jump pad though, for every four craters I would land on that little ledge

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