The absolute biggest problem with the vehicles....

[martinblank]

The biggest problem with the vehicles is actually NOT that they are to quiet and to powerful, although those are big problems, they are not the biggest.

The absolute biggest problem with them is actually getting into them and grappling to them when on the hover board. I'm sure I can't be the only one to notice this.

You have to be facing a vehicle at juuuuuust the right angle and be standing in juuuuuuust the right spot for the "enter vehicle" message to appear. And even then, sometimes you don't successfully get in when the message is displayed.

It is a clunky and awkward process and it is extremely annoying and aggravating when you are in the middle of an intense game, and you are having trouble entering the vehicles.

This was not a problem in UT2004 at all. You could run up to a vehicle, hit enter and you got in. In UT3 on the other hand, you have to run up to the vehicle and start circling around it, trying to get in just the right position and be facing in just the right direction for the enter vehicle message to appear. And sometimes it gets bugged out and you don't actually get in the vehicle the first time you press enter. This is extremely annoying.

The hover board grappling feature is also similarly annoying to use. Say you've got a manta waiting outside the enemy base and you grab the flag and hop on the hover board. You go out and attempt to grapple to the manta, but lo and behold you have a very hard time trying to get the "press fire to grapple" message to appear and usually are killed before it shows up. It's the same situation when trying to grapple to the raptor. But the funny thing is, once you DO get grappled, you get flung about in all different directions, in places and positions where the "press fire to grapple" message would never show up in a million years.

All in all it is a very clumsy and awkward process and I sure hope epic is working on a patch to make it more streamlined.

Of course, there is then the issue of not even being able to hear enemy vehicles approaching until 5 minutes after they've killed you. The whole vehicle implementation REALLY needs to be worked on. It was perfect in UT2004.

[booshack]

It might have been perfect in UT2004 - for ut2004. Obviously the balancing needs to be very different with the movement change, buffed avril etc. I happen to think the vehicle balance is just about perfect (and map balance is more important than vehicle power) , but I'm not an onslaught expert or anything.

I get the problem with grappling too, but no issues entering vehicles.

[Nacher]

I have never had any problems entering the vehicles.

To grapple, you have to behind the vehicle and it's hard at times when that lame mantadriver is just facing towards you when you have the flag and swim up from the lake in Suspense. By the time you have typed "TURN AROUND FFS!", you have already been sniped. I hate when that happens.

Edit : I'm really interested to see what easily available avril on some WAR maps does to usefulness of Manta. Avril simply eats manta alive.

[martinblank]

Oh just in case I was not clear, when I said "They were perfect in UT2004" I meant the sounds they gave off and entering them. I didn't mean they should have the same speed, damage, etc... in UT3.

[Mukkie]

i sometimes have trouble Leaving vehicles, wic is very annoying since, when targeted by a tank or an avril, i want to be able to jump out of my vehicle. Thats the most annoying for me .

The entering also has to do with spawning, because when the vehicle just spawned you cant enter it for like 1 or 2 seconds, wich is like, annoying when there is an enemy raptor fireing its missiles at you.

[Hypotenuse]

you forgot to mention the lack of first person view. this will really hurt raptor/tank and similar vehicles

[bclagge]

Think of the vehicle spawn taking place at the point it's able to be entered. Therefore, you are actually getting advance notice that a vehicle is going to spawn.

I have no trouble entering vehicles.

At first I was annoyed with the difficulty in grappling a vehicle. But I got used to it, and instead of fumbling about I walk into position and grapple.

Yeah I get tossed about when being pulled. So when I fly I try and do it in a manner that the person being hauled doesn't get hurt. That means no jumping in the manta, and avoiding obstacles. And when setting someone down in the raptor, do it gently.

Overall, I like the process to require a little skill and know-how. If it was really easy it wouldn't be as much fun.

*Edit: My only complaint is it's very difficult to know when a rider is attached to the raptor.

[Reise]

Yeah the only thing I can think of to really help with vehicles is to add some kind of notification when someone has grappled (like a graphic or something) to you.

Other than that, hearing different stories like "Vehicles are too weak" and "Vehicles are too powerful" tells me Epic did a good job making sure they were well rounded. Vehicles have strengths and weaknesses, and you can fail miserably with them or do really well.

[martinblank]

Dude, it has nothing to do with skill. I can use them too. It's just much more clumsy and awkward to do than in UT2004, not to mention the vehicles are super powerful and produce almost no noise.

If you thought the manta was overpowered in UT2004, look at UT3....

Yes the AVRIL owns the manta, but it's about the only weapon that DOES own the manta. And I have discovered that maybe one out of four times when I get a direct hit on a manta with the avril, it does not die, or even get hurt (and several times with the udamage). Just like the bug with shots not registering in UT2004. That is extremely annoying.

And this is also not mentioning the fact that there is no ammo for the avril in suspense, and worse yet you can't toss weapons. Yes, weapon tossing will be available in the full version, but only when weaponstay is disabled, making it useless for 96.3% of all the servers running. Closer to 100% when you factor in which servers even have any players on them.

Anybody that thinks the manta is not overpowered is either joking or remaining willfully ignorant. I'm not complaining because I keep getting killed by it (which I do sometimes), but I myself am guilty of whoring it because it's even more overpowered than it was in UT2004 and most players never have an AVRIL and the ones that do can't hear it coming in enough time.

[otsego_amigo]

scorpion owns against the manta, and the stinger is decent.

[bclagge]

Overpowerful would be an opinion. One that I agreed with initially, but after playing for a while I've changed my opinion. You just have to strategize around it. If there's a manta in the area, stay near buildings and use the stinger ALT fire to hold it back while going for cover.

The manta needs to be powerful to counter the tank. The raptor owns the tank, however anyone in the base can start unloading with the stinger. If just one or two are firing, it can save the tank. Otherwise, a tank behind cover has no threat besides the manta (and deemer).

I say we should all reserve judgement on the vehicles until we play the full version. The vehicle dynamic should be different on every map.

No noise from vehicles: agreed. I can't hear a tank firing just outside a building. I never hear anything behind me until it's killing me.

No weapon toss: I agree it's a problem.

[Cuddles]

I think that other weapons should damage a manta more and maby have more kickback to it. Also vehicles should be louder.

Also the goliath needs to be stronger IMO, a full goliath with minigun and driver could take out many enemys in 2k4, but now it feels weaker.

[bclagge]

The flak cannon can take out a manta in just a few shots. You can also use the shock rifle ALT like in UT2k4. And I can't be sure, but I believe I got quite a bit of knock back from the shock primary.

[Destini]

OP is spot on, its annoying how awkward it can be to do such simple things.

[Killerus]

manta overpowered, not really. I guess you guys never played Dreamus in 2k4, that was manta hell The avril makes short work of them, the flak is decent, the scorpion absolutely owns them, and the impact hammer can make short work of them as well. A secondary charge of the impact hammer usually takes them out in one shot. Of course all of the above requires to keep the manta in sight, but considering most manta drivers charge directly at you this is not too hard.

I think people feel they are overpowered due to the lack of avrils on suspense. In the past Avrils were plenty so mantas were more easily killed.