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Race will kill Warfare mode?

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    Race will kill Warfare mode?

    This is just a personal opinion of mine as an Assault player in UT2004. Assault was great for months after the release, experienced players and newbies all playing together having fun, but as time passed, more and more servers started appearing with 16+ players running maps with the word "race" in the name. More time passed and the number of newbies we needed to fill a server became less, leaving just the more experienced players, which in the end was the modes downfall.

    The reason I am blabbing on about this isn't for sympathy, or whining, it's just the irony in AS not being included would be fulfilled if Warfare were to be plagued by race maps too, we which we do know can happen, as Warfare has AS capabilities through the editor. Let's not forgot, newbies love the vehicle side of things, and if having more fun with them means becoming a full time race player, they will, they effectively control the success of stuff.

    So my overall guess, Warfare normal will last top for 4 months, then very slowly die out as the Race servers begin to fill the Warfare server list.

    This is all imo of course.

    -Sephiroth-

    #2
    What exactly is this "race" you're talking about?

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      #3
      warfare is more like ONS than AS .. so it will stay alive until UT4 comes out

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        #4
        Originally posted by Rujman View Post
        What exactly is this "race" you're talking about?
        It's the name for custom map that falls under normal gametypes (Warfare this time around), that it essentially has nothing to associate with. These are usually huge, with a number of vehicles beyond your imagination. Here, DM skills can be completely useless. They are objective based.

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          #5
          Originally posted by unrealkiller View Post
          warfare is more like ONS than AS .. so it will stay alive until UT4 comes out
          Ut2004: Race maps were made under the AS gametype in the editor, and hence would appear in that server list.

          UT3: Assault maps can be made through the Warfare game mode (that's their (Epic) solution for not including Assault in UT3), hence the race mode will move there, and appear with a bunch of huge slot servers in that server list

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            #6
            Race can be fun. Some maps are like BT but than with vehicles (think about halfloops etc). But indeed the Assault became very inpopular after a while, and that's a shame. But I don't think that was because of racemaps. Race and trial maps were after a few years the only reason I ever looked at Assault servers in the first place. AS just isn't as good public as ONS was. Warfare will combine both, and as long as Warfare is fun, racemaps will never exterminate Warfare.

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              #7
              Oh, how I hated those maps. I remember one which was a thousand miles of thin, floating track that took literally ten minutes to drive along with nothing happening because the players were so spread out you could hardly see them even with a scope, then someone at the end would push you off with a rocket and you'd have to do it all again. Assault was my favourite gametype until I couldn't find any decent servers due to this.

              I also had to stop playing TDM and CTF because I couldn't find any servers without hitsounds and glowstick skins etc. At least ONS remained good throughout, and more than made up for the lack of other gametypes.

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                #8
                Not only race maps killed Assault, but also ability to play on demo servers.
                By the way, in Russia Normal assault was most popular gametype since UT2004 release.

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                  #9
                  I think a huge portion of why a lot of things were unpopular with UT2k4 goes to the bad default server settings.

                  I'm exaggerating to show the point but it's about like that for DM (and similar for other gametypes):

                  You had two choices:
                  • Rankin
                  • download 50 MB of custom "this server owns" mods, 20 MB of "make everyone neon green and freeze my PC every 5 minutes to check file integrity" mods and lastly another 30 MB of "DM-this-is-some-awesome-remake-it-so-roxxors-and-I-put-50-redeemers-in-here-OMG"

                  With all my love for the UT series..both just sucks if all you want is some fun. Neither do I want to play the same map all the time no matter what server I pick, nor have to wait an hour while being forced to download all that custom content. And don't get me wrong here.. there's lots of custom content that's just great..but there's just as much bad stuff as well.

                  In my opinion it's a bad idea to make the default server options lead to only one map being played (and not all official maps of one gametype in rotation), that you can connect to demo servers (that only have 1 map per gametype to begin with), that the server browser defaulted to showing Onslaught and not all servers of all game types (advanced users can always filter), being able to re-vote the same map over and over (an organized minority can easily force their wishes on a disorganized majority)... the list goes on.

                  There are always players that want be able to play one map blindfolded and still win, but to insure a long-time success of the game for the masses variety is the key.

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                    #10
                    Presumably (allegedly?) Kismet will make it a lot easier to make proper objectives, so we might actually see good custom maps with AS- style play this time out.

                    OTOH there will always be **** servers. Nothing to be done about that short of not releasing the editor.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Discord 2.0 View Post
                      Presumably (allegedly?) Kismet will make it a lot easier to make proper objectives, so we might actually see good custom maps with AS- style play this time out.
                      There even were a couple good custom ones (in my opinion) for UT2k4. Most notably those in the CBP and the one from AngelMapper (the name fails me right now) that was part of the Megapack.

                      OTOH there will always be **** servers.
                      Yeah, that's true. But I still believe that with proper default settings one can prevent that it comes down to those 2 choices. It isn't difficult at all to make the settings behave in a way, that if you set up two servers where all you pick is the game-type they'll run different maps in rotation, voting is activated but re-voting of the same map limited to 3 times in a row. It's extremely little effort on side of the developer but has tremendous results for the server landscape.

                      Sure, one can also say: "That's the system admin's task". But if the system admins were willing (or able) to do so, then why did UT2k4's server landscape deteriorate like it did? My guess is that often people are running a server as a favour (boss for people in a company) and don't want to bother with the details once the server is up and running, or the people don't know how to configure the server.

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                        #12
                        Race was fine, but trials were the next worst thing after UT RPG. I do hope that those maps will never be seen in the server browser.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by ixiWildflowerixi View Post
                          There even were a couple good custom ones (in my opinion) for UT2k4. Most notably those in the CBP and the one from AngelMapper (the name fails me right now) that was part of the Megapack.
                          From the competitive stand point, there was only 2 good customs (neither CBP maps). Angelmapper's map (AS-Subrosa) needed considerable work in order to be good.

                          Garbage custom maps, race maps and trial maps helped kill AS in 2k4. The other thing that helped was it being a crappy port of UT99 AS.

                          Personally, nothing would please me more that to see another flood of horrible maps with racing or trials to kill Warfare. It would be kinda of like vengence for the ASer that I am.


                          AS 4 life. 99 AS 4tw!

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Discord 2.0 View Post
                            Presumably (allegedly?) Kismet will make it a lot easier to make proper objectives, so we might actually see good custom maps with AS- style play this time out.
                            Good objectives don't = good maps. Varied paths to an objective have to be present. Proper weapon picks ups to complement Attack and D. PROPER USE OF VEHICLES! The reason there are so few maps for AS that are good is because it took so much work to make good ones.

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                              #15
                              in UT2004 i didnt play ONS that much, yeah i went back to it every now and then, but i generally was playing deathmatch and team deathmatches...ctf was a big favourite too, but by the looks of Warfare i think this will change as it looks awesome in my eyes

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