lighting gun

[Ultron]

Seriously, if that would be common thinking on the part of game developers, how could you EVER try new things and elements in successors of a popular game or even enforce long-term changes?

I said the Sniper has a place in the Unreal, because it's been in the vast majority of Unreal games. I did NOT say that developers should avoid trying new things.

The argument "It's always been there and because Epic always put it in the games, it just HAS to be right" can't be a basis for a proper discussion. Not that the discussion "me like teh lg, snipey sucks big time.." and vice versa would make any sense at all, but still... :P

That is way off base with what we've been discussing. And you're taking me out of context. Some people have said that a Sniper Rifle doesn't fit in Unreal because it's essentially conventional weaponry in a futuristic shooter. What myself and others have been arguing, in context, is that conventional weaponry is not out of place in this futuristic games. In fact the majority of weaponry are conventional ones. IE, not energy weaponry. Though there are a number of weapons like the Shock Rifle, Link Gun, etc. So clearly both conventional and nonconventional weaponry belong in this game. So let's move past that point. Clearly a Sniper Rifle _and_ a Lightning Gun are both right up this game's alley. It benefits NOBODY to pretend otherwise.

So what is the issue, then? Well quite frankly the Sniper Rifle is more popular than the Lightning Gun. Just as the Enforcers were more popular than the Assault Rifles. So Epic took that step backwards, so to speak, in favor of more popular choices. And by no means are these the only two decisions they've made in the name of popularity. Such as eliminating less popular gametypes, so they can focus more on popular ones. Focusing more on functional/quality maps over gimmicky unpopular maps. Eliminating less popular models, etc. It's not perfect, but they did that to attract a wider audience.

I can only state that the lg fits the gameplay of all the DM based gametypes in 2k4 much, much more than the sniper rifle ever could. And most of these so called sniper clans and servers with their enhanced uber sniper rifles (like ROF multiplied by 10 and hundrets of bullets ammo) , huge maps and semingly enlarged head hitboxes are no argument for the sniper rifle in 2k4, imo. :P

The first arguement I agree with. The second arguement is a no-brainer, and I've never argued along those lines. I was one of the ones clamoring for a Sniper Rifle after UT2k3 came out, and was disappointed with the UT2k4 Snipey. It should have been identical in damage/ROF as the LG, but did less damage for the same ROF. It also had the _completely dumb_ puff of smoke when fired, which I argued against ad nauseum the instant I learned about it during 2k4's development. I was by no means alone. Epic learned from that mistake, too.

Not sure about a lg in UT3 though. I admit that the sniper rifle seems to fit the game better, the lg's elegance and grace wouldn't consort well with the general new feeling of carrying 3 more players on your shoulders. (all IMO, this is not supposed to start a movement discussion in here as well, just to make sure...) ;D

I think the LG would fit just fine in this game, actually. I see no problem with someone making a mutator for it. Though I'd recommend it be identical in damage/ROF as the current Sniper Rifle.

I get the feeling some people here think I am just arguing against the LG, but I'm not. I am arguing against the foolish notions that a Sniper Rifle has "no place" in an Unreal game. Clearly it's had a place in most of them, like it or not. And people arguing against console influences, then arguing for the LG, or dodge-jump, or simplified interfaces for a PC game, is just plain dumb.

---

if ut99 had the LG you would be here telling how LG was so awesome and how the sniper sucks

It depends on the implementation of the LG for one thing. If it were identical to the Snipey in UT then it would probably be widely acclaimed, since the UT Snipey was directly carried over from Unreal except for the weapon model. But yeah, we'd probably love the LG, and hate it if it were replaced by the Sniper Rifle in UT2k3.

I strongly suspect the situation is similar, with the people who prefer the LG over the Snipey today. They probably got their start in the Unreal series with UT2k3 or UT2k4. Certainly the types of arguements I've seen so far in this thread suggest that, with the apparently cluelessness of just how many Unreal games use the Sniper Rifle compared to the Lightning Gun.

It's like Mom's cooking or whatever. What you grow up with, becomes your favorite. I see no problem with that, as that is a subjective preference issue. But dumb arguements are easy to tear apart, objectively.

[Xzentheus]

A zoom function on the shock, 3rd key, would go a long way in helping me deal with the loss of the lightning gun. Only time will tell. But then again, perhaps a mutator will save me from my loss and make me whole again. UT2004 has some excellent sniping guns out on servers, will not be long before something turns up on UT3. It's all good!

Shock would be too overpowered then, bad idea...

Hehe, true. And yeah, the main difference between lg and sniper is the feeling, besides damage of course. I can't imagine playing TAM with a sniper rifle, the lg is just teh sexyness. ;D

AGREED!!! It all depends on the game too. I mean the sniper felt right in UT99 (although way overpowered due to it's rate of fire lol), and the lg felt right in 2k3, and 2k4...

PS. Do NOT compare the UC2 rifle at all with the UT Sniper and LG. It is literraly a COMPLETELY different weapon, with the same basic science, and that's about it.

it does... by the annoying pink sniper trail.... i like Chaos' Sniper rifle that would blind you with the laser beam so you could still see them and get fair warning, but i agree at least there is something to give u away.

I like the RPB (Rocket-Propelled Bullets) Sniper from the Chaos Pack. The one with the Green Lens, and Left Smoke Trails... Above all that was prob my favorite UT sniper EVER.

That's because it was rarely put into the 2k4 maps by default in the DM mode.

Well, Let's also not forget that half the maps that were in 2k4, were direct maps from 2k3. So if they were made for 2k3, then obviously they would have the LG over the Sniper. This is why you have more LG's floating around than Snipers.

I can only state that the lg fits the gameplay of all the DM based gametypes in 2k4 much, much more than the sniper rifle ever could. And most of these so called sniper clans and servers with their enhanced uber sniper rifles (like ROF multiplied by 10 and hundrets of bullets ammo) , huge maps and semingly enlarged head hitboxes are no argument for the sniper rifle in 2k4, imo. :P

I could not agree more. They DO NOT QUALIFY AS A LEGIT UT SNIPER, PERIOD.

[GG-Xtreme]

Does everyone really care so much about the look of a weapon that they don't realize that the Sniper Rifle and Lightning gun are the same weapons?

[woooo]

They are not, similar perhaps.

[Cuddles]

I dont really care if they are both gone, never really use em unless im on a big map and need to zoom in to kill.

[brdempsey69]

Time for this thread to die.

[D2F[Leo]]

I said the Sniper has a place in the Unreal, because it's been in the vast majority of Unreal games. I did NOT say that developers should avoid trying new things.

Ok, that's better. Of course it has a place in the Unreal universe, I didn't say anything else. I just wanted to point out that the argument "it's always been there" doesn't tell very much about the quality of a gameplay element, here: a weapon.

And you're taking me out of context.

Of course I do, that's how slight teasing in a discussion usually works for me, hehe.

Some people have said that a Sniper Rifle doesn't fit in Unreal because it's essentially conventional weaponry in a futuristic shooter.

Personally I didn't argue on the assumption that Unreal means "no realistic weapons". But ok, let's count just out of interest. Roughly reality based weapons (for UT3): Enforcers, Impact Hammer, Stinger, Flak Cannon, Rocket Launcher, Sniper and Redeemer. Sci-Fi: Goop, Shock Rifle, Link Gun. -> Realism wins.

The second arguement is a no-brainer, and I've never argued along those lines.

Actually I didn't refer to you by these lines, it was some kind of reply to another post somewhere in this thread, no worries. ^^

I get the feeling some people here think I am just arguing against the LG, but I'm not. I am arguing against the foolish notions that a Sniper Rifle has "no place" in an Unreal game. Clearly it's had a place in most of them, like it or not.

I noticed that you don't argue against the LG. I just presented the very personal opinion that I like the LG more, which does not mean that I consider the Sniper Rifle as incongrous! Totally ok for me if other people prefer the Sniper Rifle, as long as they have reasonable arguments. You can see, we are basically arguing in the same way, just for different factions.

And people arguing against console influences, then arguing for the LG, or dodge-jump, or simplified interfaces for a PC game, is just plain dumb.

Maybe I get you wrong (can be a hard time here as a non-native speaker), but who argues "for simplified interfaces"? Actually there are dozens of threads complaining about the dumbed down and simplified UI, as you might know. I also can't see the connection LG - console and dodgejump - console. But we aren't discussing the dodgejump here and I feel like I've thought enough about a weapon in a computer game, so I stop now.

[woooo]

Ok, that's better. Of course it has a place in the Unreal universe, I didn't say anything else. I just wanted to point out that the argument "it's always been there" doesn't tell very much about the quality of a gameplay element, here: a weapon.



Of course I do, that's how slight teasing in a discussion usually works for me, hehe.



Personally I didn't argue on the assumption that Unreal means "no realistic weapons". But ok, let's count just out of interest. Roughly reality based weapons (for UT3): Enforcers, Impact Hammer, Stinger, Flak Cannon, Rocket Launcher, Sniper and Redeemer. Sci-Fi: Goop, Shock Rifle, Link Gun. -> Realism wins.



Actually I didn't refer to you by these lines, it was some kind of reply to another post somewhere in this thread, no worries. ^^



I noticed that you don't argue against the LG. I just presented the very personal opinion that I like the LG more, which does not mean that I consider the Sniper Rifle as incongrous! Totally ok for me if other people prefer the Sniper Rifle, as long as they have reasonable arguments. You can see, we are basically arguing in the same way, just for different factions.



Maybe I get you wrong (can be a hard time here as a non-native speaker), but who argues "for simplified interfaces"? Actually there are dozens of threads complaining about the dumbed down and simplified UI, as you might know. I also can't see the connection LG - console and dodgejump - console. But we aren't discussing the dodgejump here and I feel like I've thought enough about a weapon in a computer game, so I stop now.

Quote more please !

[D2F[Leo]]

Quote more please !

Tried, but didn't work. :< Can be quite funny to rip someone's post in pieces, you should try it yourself!

[GG-Xtreme]

Time for this thread to die.

I approve this message.

[Ultron]

Leo and I are more alike in opinion, it seems. I think the LG had potential, but I personally prefer the Snipey. I think the Snipey is implemented very well in this game. Reminds me of the UT one mixed with the Unreal 2 one, with the laser-esque sniper tracer.

[Xzentheus]

so now that i've finally played the UT3 DEMO, i would say i'm pleased with the sniper. The scope is fine, the aiming is fine, and the trail is fine. I loved the LG, but i don't think i will miss it 2 much... especially if i do game in 2k4 every once and a while

[bclagge]

Wow, I didn't think this thread would come up again.

LG, what LG? After playing UT3 for a while, I'm ready to say goodbye to it forever.