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    #46
    Originally posted by Nacher View Post
    Shows how differently a lot of people think about proper 1on1, classic DM or just the "feel" of the game.
    I would put Q3A as #1 and UT99 as #2 for having what I would call the feel of classic DM. For current-gen games, FEAR comes close other than the player speed being slower. The later post-Q3 id games IMHO are terrible DM and I no longer play them even though I bought them.
    While UT2004 is good, and I play it a lot (along with UT99, Q3, FEAR and BF2142), it has a "loose" player control and the weapons allow for so much splash and incidental damage and kills that it feels like I'm somehow cheating...

    Originally posted by Nacher View Post
    ... vast majority of people considering UT99 ... are the ones, who started their online 3d shooter career with UT99.
    I'm in my 40's, so I started gaming considerably before UT99.
    I programmed assembler games on the TI-99 and Apple ][+.

    I tend to take every game at face value and don't try to enforce my gaming beliefs onto it. However, if a game advertises a specific "standard" game play type, it should at least be similar to what has already paved that path before it. If it wanders too far from that game type, it should be re-named.

    Originally posted by Nacher View Post
    If UT3 plays like a hotrodder UT2k4, I'm going to be very happy with it. In UT2k4 the only thing I missed from UT99 were those more powerful guns and closer combat.
    IMHO one of the drawbacks to UT2004's DM is the wonky map scale.
    Because the scale was so far off, requiring maps to be usually 2x real-world scale, this meant that close combat was basically impossible. Rooms and corridors had to be so large that players were fighting basically in cathedrals or airplane hangers instead of in rooms.
    Look at Q3 maps as an example, most don't have the massive high ceilings or stairs that look like each step is chest-height.
    The map scale needs to be drastically reduced, and the weapons pulled back accordingly (which will however cause ONS problems IMHO), then it may play like DM.

    Originally posted by [404]Cham3l3on View Post
    I believe dodge jump removal is going to have a HUGE impact on game play. In fact as (you are) a mapper I don't see how you feel this won't impact the game in a very significant way.
    Dodge-Jump will impact game play, standard Dodge will impact it less IMHO. However, Jump/Double-Jump/Quad-Jump just needs to be throttled back a bit. Compare UT2004's jump height to Q3. In UT2004 it's just crazy how high you go.

    Originally posted by [404]Cham3l3on View Post
    ... we need more maps where the map is based on numbers of players. ...
    I agree that most UT2004 maps released in the past couple of years have been the standard large DM style. Very few good small close-quarters maps have come out.

    Originally posted by [404]Cham3l3on View Post
    I do appreciate those that do these things for the community, but so many times you see maps just fall off into oblivion.
    I have two Q3-ish style maps under development for UT3.
    Whether or not they will be successful will depend on how the final release version of UT3 plays.

    Comment


      #47
      Yes I play alot on my PC. But this is just my opinion.

      For DM its really different places for different faces.

      The real thing about DM is that to many maps are being made up for snipers.

      Its realy ZZzzzz way to play DM.
      I mean DM is for Getting in the mix not hidding like little Bi**hes.

      Were is the fum of that.

      But some players like different maps cuz they do better.

      Like the none skilled campers love to play Big big maps so they can have the room to hide and shot from a far and stay in that one spot.

      And some players like low grav to just to bump other players away.

      I feel that this game is for skilled players and anyone can try it and know they will fall in love with this game.

      I cant find any other game that can top UT on line games like DeathMatch.

      Some are out there but the pace is waayyy to slow.

      I do play on a PC, use key board -mouse.
      Its the easy way to play once you get the hang.

      The only thing is doing and knowing what your settings are.
      Thats the key in the game.

      The settings are realy importent.

      I hope and wish that all the servers will be Anti cheat. Thats what should be look at for this game. Some players go in the game and have cheat code and just killes the game.
      All the severs are A++++ dont get me wrong. But once in a while you will get that AH that cheats but thats in any game if you realy look at it !!

      Anti cheat should be on all servers and should be tamed for the campers that love to stay on one spot for a long period of time. But thats my say on DM.

      You need to play & play for a while and you will get the hang of it.
      And once you do you will be hooked and become a cave man on your computer.
      But please try not to be a none skill camper.

      Campers = players that stay in one spot. Even tho it might be safe you will never win matches that way or as much. - Plyers that stay on 2nd floor levels for kills. Hiding dont help as much as you think.

      Just my opinion and nothing more nothing less. I will be one of the 1st to get my hands on for my PC and the time is near my friends just to "stay down" and "step aside". lol Kidding Have fun all and GAME ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Sept 24,2007 Posted. Post date in this is all wrong!!!2006?? lol

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by DGUnreal View Post
        Dodge-Jump will impact game play, standard Dodge will impact it less IMHO. However, Jump/Double-Jump/Quad-Jump just needs to be throttled back a bit. Compare UT2004's jump height to Q3. In UT2004 it's just crazy how high you go.
        Just to be clear, dodge jump is removed, dodge is still in. Quad jump is a rarely used mutator and isn't a factor in map scaling. The dodge jump is the main reason to why the map scale is messed up and close quarter battle isn't happening in 2k4, FOV (that isn't a fixed value in 2k4) or other camera attributes has nothing to do with it. It's a fact and easy to test just by turning off dodge jumping in 2k4 and try scaling maps.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Molgan View Post
          Just to be clear, dodge jump is removed, dodge is still in. Quad jump is a rarely used mutator and isn't a factor in map scaling. The dodge jump is the main reason to why the map scale is messed up and close quarter battle isn't happening in 2k4, FOV (that isn't a fixed value in 2k4) or other camera attributes has nothing to do with it. It's a fact and easy to test just by turning off dodge jumping in 2k4 and try scaling maps.
          Not to mention the Gravity Increase. Not as much floating around now.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Molgan View Post
            Just to be clear, dodge jump is removed, dodge is still in. Quad jump is a rarely used mutator and isn't a factor in map scaling. The dodge jump is the main reason to why the map scale is messed up and close quarter battle isn't happening in 2k4, FOV (that isn't a fixed value in 2k4) or other camera attributes has nothing to do with it. It's a fact and easy to test just by turning off dodge jumping in 2k4 and try scaling maps.
            The only issue with jump and dodge-jump is how high you go. Epic made that too much in my opinion. Q3's jump height is probably half of UT2004's.

            Quad jump is an issue in map design. Check out the mapping forums and you will see where people beta-testing maps will tell mappers to increase ceiling height in main battle rooms so that you can quad. Even maps like HyperBlast2 have insane ceiling heights that allow for this.

            I partially disagree on the reasoning. Other engine design areas besides dodge-jump are also to blame. Smaller scale simply looks cramped in UT2004. Even if I don't dodge or dodge-jump in a UT2k4 map, you would never get away with Q3 map sizes as you would be hitting walls all of the time in UT2k4 and everything would look like a closet instead of a hall.

            Comment


              #51
              Let's talk about Capture The Flag.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by [DR]Marine View Post
                Let's talk about Capture The Flag.
                CTF-Control ftw

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by DGUnreal View Post
                  I partially disagree on the reasoning. Other engine design areas besides dodge-jump are also to blame. Smaller scale simply looks cramped in UT2004. Even if I don't dodge or dodge-jump in a UT2k4 map, you would never get away with Q3 map sizes as you would be hitting walls all of the time in UT2k4 and everything would look like a closet instead of a hall.
                  This I do agree with, as well as with everything else you said about UT2k4 map scale. It gives often too much of a luck factor to weapons like rocket launcher, especially as the rockets travel rather slowly. If the scale in UT3 is smaller, it's almost sure to be an improvement. At least in case it doesn't feel cramped or like fighting in a closet.

                  About Q3 being the #1 classic DM game, I have to disagree. It's basically just a simplified and updated version of Q2, and Q2 is really slow and nerfed down compared to Q1. Finland and Scandinavia in general had a huge Q1 scene, which really didn't like the slowed tempo, lower weapon powers, slower rockets or simplified controls of Q2, so they didn't adapt and kept on playing Q1. This went on with Q3 as well, because it was too much like Q3. Quake3 continued the traiditon, where projectiles like rockets fly really slowly and items/powerups don't have much impact. Even though Q3 plays really solid, had a good netcode, player visibility etc, I think it's just too nerfed down to be a #1 classic DM game. UT99 actually was in many ways closer to QW. The weapons were really powerful, there was some air control and items/powerups like shieldbelt actually made a huge difference. That's why it worked so well for TDM imo. Also some maps were really Q1 like, like Turbine, Codex, Tempest etc. It also had other minor, but impotant features from QW like picking up a dead guy's weapon gave you all his ammo, not just 5 rockets or so, and you could get enough ammo to actually use one weapon for more than two consecutive kills.

                  (And yes, we could talk about CTF as well. It's just that if DM works, and CTF has proper maps, CTF is bound to work as well.)

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Im missing Liandri, Agony, and Codex

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Check out this Quakeworld fragvideo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6Kdp0RNc0

                      Skip the first 1-1,5min. Look at the tempo, lol. How often you see such air rocketing or speeding in Q3? I'm still missing gameplay like that.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Nacher View Post
                        Check out this Quakeworld fragvideo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka6Kdp0RNc0

                        Skip the first 1-1,5min. Look at the tempo, lol. How often you see such air rocketing or speeding in Q3? I'm still missing gameplay like that.
                        Rofl that was ugly. ^^ But it reminded me about another thing that is incredibly fun; bouncing people around. I hoped UT3 would have a lot more knock back then 2k4, but from the vids it looks like that's not going to happen.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by Molgan View Post
                          Rofl that was ugly. ^^ But it reminded me about another thing that is incredibly fun; bouncing people around. I hoped UT3 would have a lot more knock back then 2k4, but from the vids it looks like that's not going to happen.
                          Actually we really have yet to see shock primary knockback in complete action, although it is rumored it is increased? The clips I have seen of Rox, the guys just turn into gibs on the vids so no idea there either (but I would venture a guess that due to the increased damage it may go up slightly). Other than the Impact Hammer and possibly Flak secondary I am not sure what else should have knock-back.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by [404]Cham3l3on View Post
                            Actually we really have yet to see shock primary knockback in complete action, although it is rumored it is increased? The clips I have seen of Rox, the guys just turn into gibs on the vids so no idea there either (but I would venture a guess that due to the increased damage it may go up slightly). Other than the Impact Hammer and possibly Flak secondary I am not sure what else should have knock-back.
                            Knockback is definetly a must for a proper DM feel. Actually, in that one interview/gameplay trailer of UT3 we were shown short clips of RL combat in DM-Deimos, and there rockets seemed to have a really strong knockback and bouncing guys well into air. I just hope UT3 rockets aren't as stupidly slow as in UT99. Impossible to airrox with those.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Why are these threads regarding competetive gameplay comparisons between the UT series,( like the one I just spent 10 mins trying to find the quote from an interview with Lauke), getting deleted?

                              Seems it would apply to this thread as well.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by xi0s View Post
                                Why are these threads regarding competetive gameplay comparisons between the UT series,( like the one I just spent 10 mins trying to find the quote from an interview with Lauke), getting deleted?

                                Seems it would apply to this thread as well.
                                Are they? Weird. Unless they are those bash-Epic-for-not-liking-competetive-scene threads. Anyways, with questions about which game suits competetive gameplay best, "true" answers are almost impossible to find. There always are people prefering some style of gameplay, no matter is it Quake, UT, CS, whatever.

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