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Let's talk about deathmatch

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    Originally posted by Kusimeka View Post
    Guys, i think your forgetting there's actuley a mode for 1 on 1...
    All I've heard is the gametype name Duel.

    That implies 1 on 1, sure, but not much else. Do you have links to anything more substantial?


      Originally posted by Fierce View Post
      Deathmatch maplist from (it was seen an a video of the main menu):


      DM-Deimos and the map with the Darkwalker in it may be gimmicky, but looking at how good the maps of UC2 turned out (imho), I'm pretty confident that most of the UT3 maps will be good as well. I heard Epic uses a better process in creating maps, where the base made of pure brushes without any graphic features like static meshes is gameplay tested, which is a good way to assure, that maps not only look good but play good and you don't get any eyecandy-only maps like DM-Inferno.

      Well, DM-Sanctuary in the Comic Con demo looked pretty cool, I can't wait to try it for myself. DM-Deck may also be an all time classic again.
      No Curse?


        I too am eagerly waiting to try out DM, as it is one of the main reasons I bought the game.


          Well it is the core of the entire game, as fighting is the core of every gametype and all DM is is fighting. But man, waiting for it is kind of sucking, I really want it now.


            No Curse?
            Apparently not... But giving the last curse map in UT2003, I don't think they want to repair it.


              "You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means."
              -Inigo Montoya

              I think people should calm down with the whole "gimmick" thing. The term is for maps that make environments that are completely out there (like the miniature-scale maps), or one where poor gameplay relies mostly either on the environment or some unique feature to prop it up.

              Just because a map has a unique feature to it (like the pressure chamber in DM-Pressure), doesn't mean it's a gimmick map. Pressure works on its own, even without the chamber. Healpod is based around the healing field, but it's a good map, and the unique feature makes the game feel like a whole new gametype, almost.

              And is every Assault map with a vehicle a gimmick map? WTF? All through the UT99 years, people mentioned how cool it would be to have vehicles in assault scenarios, and as soon as technology allows it, they pour derision on them. Assault'04 had massive problems, but the gameplay wasn't any better without vehicles. (Okay, AS-Mothership I'll grant you. The spacefighter section made me stop playing the very first time I played the map, and soured me on Assault in general. That was a world-class screwup map.)

              Game designers look at what the new content allows them to do, in terms of providing unique scenarios for the players. If every map has to conform to rigid guidelines becasue the community is so dogmatic about what makes a good DM map, we should't be surprised if Epic ignores the vocal community and does what they want, trying to please the silent majority.

              The core members of Epic drive around in fancy cars and are minor celebrities in their chosen field. Why does anyone think that their ideas aren't working for them? I think when their ideas begin to consistently fail, then they'll be more likely to listen to "advice" threads.


                nothing wrong in my opinoin with ANY of the maps. Great OP btw, bount time someone sent some love to the DM maps way

                interesting maplist if those indeed are accurate. yea im not liking the gimmick factor ppl are bringing into this either, i love all maps, all variety, and yep if the stock maps that get shipped aren't brilliant, just wait people, just wait, once the community gets their hands on the editor and the maps start comming, some are just gonna blow your mind away, just the way UT3 feels, i am pretty confident on the DM/CTF maps. It really will be interesting to see what exactly the community brings out in way of styles of the maps ect...


                  ... I think... well... tbh... hmmph.

                  what Hedge-O-Matic said
                  (and once you get past the absurd name, he actually has a point!)

                  minor celebrities?


                    Originally posted by isp_of_doom View Post
                    Apparently not... But giving the last curse map in UT2003, I don't think they want to repair it.
                    They shouldn't have messed with the perfection that was DM-Curse in UT1, then The only groovie thing about the UT2 version was the pretty water effects.

                    Anyway, with UnrealEd finally coming to Linux *nudges Epic devs*, maybe I'll make the map myself. I'll even use some of the old school textures, but throw in the groovie water effects to boot. It'll be phat XD

                    /me dodges lawsuits with a ninja quickness


                      tbh even tho am not a big fan of remakes, cause in the past they have been pretty poor, main example has to be Campgrounds, jesus h christ!!! over the top fancy doors that you get stuck on, jump pads that bug out and dont work correctly, and lots of nice stickyouty things to get caught on >.< as much as it's the most abused map to date, it has the worst game flow you can get.


                      if likes of codex, gothic, tempest even peak! are remade well and strong, with the added new ones your talking a nice big strong amount of dm maps to select from and ofc all the possible new ones from the community to come!

                      in all honesty, there is huge potential for maps

                      (this includes ctf ofc even tho i have not mentioned any names)


                        Originally posted by da ghost View Post
                        Even if UT3 fails to ship with maps that work, Epic or the community can tweak the maps and make them work. That's what should have happened with UT2003/4, imo, but didn't for one reason or another.
                        I don't recall any 2k4 map release (post stock) that was used in competition. And there didn't seem to be any maps that were accepted by the community as serious competition maps (save Campgrounds which was a remake of a Quake map anyhow). Not sure why Epic didn't release mo-bettah maps for DM/TDM, but a few mappers in the community tried but either lacked the experience to make serious maps, or their creations never made it through the gauntlet of 'the community'.


                          Originally posted by [404]Cham3l3on View Post
                          I don't recall any 2k4 map release (post stock) that was used in competition. And there didn't seem to be any maps that were accepted by the community as serious competition maps (save Campgrounds which was a remake of a Quake map anyhow). Not sure why Epic didn't release mo-bettah maps for DM/TDM, but a few mappers in the community tried but either lacked the experience to make serious maps, or their creations never made it through the gauntlet of 'the community'.
                          Those good maps arrived just too late. First of all, Ut2k4 had such a wide seleciton of good DM maps to start with, that it wasn't easy to get a custom map to be widely played. Second, those really good DM maps which were comparable quality to stock ones only started to show up after the scene was already diminishing, and quality of servers going downhill. Some custom maps were used though, like Goose (2k3 custom map), Akbal2k4, 1on1-LEA and some other which names I can't remember.

                          With the complexity of UT3 maps, I really wonder how long it will take before community mappers get the knowhow of doing stock quality maps both visually and gameplay-wise, unless people who worked with UT3 will contribute to community maps as well. I'm putting my hope into official bonus packs, especially as it was mentioned in one interview that UT3 mappers had several maps / remakes of old UT maps that didn't get polished up in time, but are going to be released in later bonuspacks. I love good remake maps. Could we have DM-Turbine2k7 pretty please?


                            I don't mind gimmicks at all as log as they fit and are fun to play with.
                            I've just gone back to playing DM in UT99 in preperation for UT3, and what fun it is!
                            Trouble is, all those good maps like Tempest, Liandri, Gothic, Turbine, Codex, Curse etc etc are not played!
                            The ONLY DM servers I can find with players in are Deck only and Deck only.
                            You can't even filter off instagib (99% of servers are instagib).
                            My only worry about the maps so far is that Deck is in.. I just don't want another million Deck Only servers cropping up!
                            Sure I can play TDM pickups, but DM can't be beaten for pure adrenaline, action and fun.


                              Originally posted by LANCE.xd View Post
                              I dont get whats wrong with outdoor say the least of my concerns.

                              But its this kind of people that want blocky, plain maps with a "Shock here" and "a DD there" and "health packs on this side" that all-in-all make a map lose all its character. If you want that so bad, make your own bsp map and lay out your stuff.

                              Im not trying to antagonize you (or anyone for that matter) but it really gets to me when people complain about stuff like this.

                              Gimmicks make a map interesting! (HealPod, Pressure, and Fractal to name a few) But of course, you wouldnt want a gimmick in every map. Im pretty sure that there will be enough competitive maps along with some gimmicks thrown in to keep things interesting. But in the end, all we can do for now is wait...
                              Just to try and shed some light on the reasons why many people complain about the "why's" you mention....if in a map weapon placement, health, pu's, etc are horrid, it becomes a slay-fest in competition. I'll pick on Gren for this. Nothing like beating a team 200+ frags to 5 or so. And that is largely due to the map. Once you control lg area in a scrim/tourney/etc it is near impossible to unlock the map from the other team.

                              There shouldn't be a specific 'thing' you have to do in a particular map to win in a competition as it makes for a very boring game, unless of course there is a way to battle over that 'thing' and it is possible to do so (Keg in Asbestos comes to mind). In a pub game it's really no big deal. People in pub matches aren't concerned about making a concerted effort to work as a team.

                              As for the random events, they are never welcome in a competition. Even the somewhat random nature of the spawns can cause a lot of grief (nothing like respawning directly in front of the guy that just killed you). The reason the idea of random events gets to so many people is that it is an extraneous event that can cause the team to get off track and can screw around with the true test of skill and teamwork. (Plus it's the thing you hear from the losing team..."well we would have won if it weren't for that Tornado ripping through on the last 10 seconds of a the 54-54 tie game"). I have been in and spectated matches where some random little thing going wrong was the turning point for the other team to win and it is very very annoying. Spawns will always need to be quasi-random for obvious reasons, but I personally don't think introducing more randomness for fun is a good idea. If there are any random events they should be a completely optional server setting

                              The trick is making a map that is fun to play, has good balanced game play and works well for the size it was created. (That is another topic altogether ). I hope we see the emergence of some great mappers in UT3. I'd love to try my hand at it but unfortunately don't have the time.


                                Originally posted by Nacher View Post
                                I actually think that UT99 was a lousy 1on1 game. Just didn't work for that gametype, and I have experience of 1on1 since Doom and Quakeworld... UT2k4 on the other hand, is awesome for 1on1. However in TDM, UT99 had a slight edge due to great 4on4 maps and weapons promoting strong map control. Still, UT2k4 had a lot more of those "Whoa, what a cool frag!"-moments. I hope UT3 combines the best of both worlds.
                                You have got to be kidding me :P

                                2K4 was a terrible 1v1 game. With the shield gun, 100/50, the thousands of vials, and the tickle-me-elmo weapon damage, one can absorb 4-5 lg's plus a boat load of shock. Moreover, if a player finally kills whoever had map control 10-15 seconds before the next 100 spawn, he or she would just pull out that dang shield gun and charge or sit on it; I see this happen at least twice in every 1v1... it's ridiculous.

                                People seem to cry about the headshot hitboxes in UT99. This is odd, as it is 50x easier to hit the body of an enemy via 2k4. With the super-ease of primary fire and shock combos, I've yet to see a real "cool frag".

                                I did, however, semi-enjoy 2k4 tdm. It was much easier to stick with your team due to the massive size maps that were needed to complement the double-dodge. In ut99, sticking with your team "2k4 style" was next to impossible. The closer maps and increased weapon damage reeked of accidental team kills & double kills for the enemy.


                                The OP made some real good points. I'm hoping the stock maps are tournament worthy ;/ Perhaps it's something we can ask on Tue. during the Epic irc chat on