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UT99 v. 2K movement, why not build off it?

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  • replied
    TBH, after playing ut99, ut2k4 and ut3, without the dodge-jump the learning curve isn't so big anymore as it was in 2k4. BUT, for the gameplay, without the dodgejump its more balanced this way. Allthough you could just take 2k4, reduce the splash of combos, reduce the RoF of shock and lg, and you'll get the same balance. And also, the community is better off without the learning curve, everyone who starts 2k4 really needs a lot of patience to get into the game. And that scares too much people, people want a game not a skill. For longterm, without the learning curve DM and TDM will be boring too soon. Luckily someone is remaking BR and we still have CTF, the games played for tactics not skill. I just hope the DJ-mutator gets popular......

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  • replied
    Originally posted by KewlAzMe View Post
    i like the shoulder roll idea for duck and cover... but more like a jumping dive into a roll would be cool
    Exactly what I'm talking about, not too exaggerated like say Max Payne or the Matrix, but a dodge roll move that would be lower than the dodge jump.

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  • replied
    Just because it requires a different type of skill, it doesn't mean that the gap between skilled ppl and n00bs won't be as big. tbh, if anyone can get many kills just by spamming their weapons than someone is letting himself get killed too easily, im afraid.

    it's not the games that should adapt to ppl's skills, but ppl that need to learn how to be better in a game, and UT3 is not the same as UT2 or UT and it shouldn't be.

    also im sure there will be mutators to keep the movement style of previous games, for the ppl who don't enjoy this.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RazorX View Post
    High... Anyone who's played TAM has probably played with me... I'm probably recognized as a 'good' player and would like to give a nod to the clans Khz(Z, SandScorpion), PoS(Blood), TK5 crew, RIP, and everyone playing on KHZ and IHOP. I downloaded the 'leaked' demo and gave it a go and immediately noticed the lack of double jump and the fact that my player felt like he weighs 2 tons. After playing for a bit it's immediately apparent that this does indead lower the learning curve while completely pulling away from what people like myself loved about UT2K3/K4. The drop of the lightning gun makes no sense as the sniper rifle is a complete design orphan completely missing the style of the other weapons and loads even faster than the lighting gun... And short of extreme long range is almost the same as a hitscan weapon. The flak cannon alt fire is screwed. If I want to shoot it at someone close to me I have to aim at the ground in between because it seems to automatically shoot UP at a large angle... Aiming seems off but without the option in the demo to turn off weapon bob that might be why, oh and why can't I input fractions for my mouse sens? The competition in the upper skill levels of UT2K4 is intense, and these design decisions seem to bring that down. They seem to be made entirely based on the onslaught mode? Trying to make it more like Quake Wars and BF maybe? I dunno but the second I mentioned the movement differences to Raptor5399(TAM players know him I'm sure) he said the same thing everyone else I've talked to/played with said, "That was dumb"(also "Because they are dumb""Epic is losing it" etc.) . I will not be purchasing this game in the current state, sorry.

    Agreed Razor.

    UT2k4 was fast, you could learn SO much. If you were a noob in UT2k4, you sucked, you would have 30 frags on you and 2 wins if lucky.

    Now you just spam your weapons like you're on crack and you'll have 10 kills out of nowhere, totally blows.

    Won't be buying UT3 in this state.

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  • replied
    Remove double jump and make the jump as high as in UT99

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  • replied
    i like the shoulder roll idea for duck and cover... but more like a jumping dive into a roll would be cool

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  • replied
    I don't understand why these threads persist on being re-created over and over...

    Maybe everyone just needs to wait for the final release game and see what we get before going off.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again (are y'all sick of hearing it yet? ).
    For starters, I'm not against Dodge-Jump, and if it makes it into UT3 that is fine with me. However, Dodge-Jump belongs in UT3 as a mutator, not in the default player control. It should be with the other "extended" game play styles such as Quad-Jump, Low-Grav, Big-Head, Vampire, etc.

    If anything, Epic should just put DJ as a mut and let IA or Server Admin's decide if they want to use it or not, just like the other mut's.

    And UT3 characters and gravity are not too heavy.
    And the current player movement is also just fine for both fighting and defending. Anyone who says any different is wrong. If the l33t dodge-jump gamers relied 100% on DJ for all of their offense and defense, then they deserve to be blown away by someone who can frag and live just by using dodge and jump. Time to learn some new tactics.

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  • replied
    Shoulder roll sounds quite cool TBH and the key control you suggested for it makes a lot of sense.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RazorX View Post
    High... Anyone who's played TAM has probably played with me... I'm probably recognized as a 'good' player and would like to give a nod to the clans Khz(Z, SandScorpion), PoS(Blood), TK5 crew, RIP, and everyone playing on KHZ and IHOP. I downloaded the 'leaked' demo and gave it a go and immediately noticed the lack of double jump and the fact that my player felt like he weighs 2 tons. After playing for a bit it's immediately apparent that this does indead lower the learning curve while completely pulling away from what people like myself loved about UT2K3/K4. The drop of the lightning gun makes no sense as the sniper rifle is a complete design orphan completely missing the style of the other weapons and loads even faster than the lighting gun... And short of extreme long range is almost the same as a hitscan weapon. The flak cannon alt fire is screwed. If I want to shoot it at someone close to me I have to aim at the ground in between because it seems to automatically shoot UP at a large angle... Aiming seems off but without the option in the demo to turn off weapon bob that might be why, oh and why can't I input fractions for my mouse sens? The competition in the upper skill levels of UT2K4 is intense, and these design decisions seem to bring that down. They seem to be made entirely based on the onslaught mode? Trying to make it more like Quake Wars and BF maybe? I dunno but the second I mentioned the movement differences to Raptor5399(TAM players know him I'm sure) he said the same thing everyone else I've talked to/played with said, "That was dumb"(also "Because they are dumb""Epic is losing it" etc.) . I will not be purchasing this game in the current state, sorry.
    Yeah, TAM.

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  • replied
    If you guys are going to complain just go play Warsow. More jumping then a room full of kangaroos!

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  • replied
    Seems to me the guys who told all us UT players to go play UT when we said the movement was awful in UT2k3/4 aren't following their own brilliant advice here. Why should they make the game like UT2k4 when it flopped so well?
    And to all those saying it ain't as 'Pro' as UT2k4, i suggest you try competing with the best UTers out there, then you'll see what a whooping is really about, even though they have such 'limited' movement.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by RazorX View Post
    I downloaded the 'leaked' demo and gave it a go and immediately noticed the lack of double jump and the fact that my player felt like he weighs 2 tons. After playing for a bit it's immediately apparent that this does indead lower the learning curve while completely pulling away from what people like myself loved about UT2K3/K4. The drop of the lightning gun makes no sense as the sniper rifle is a complete design orphan completely missing the style of the other weapons and loads even faster than the lighting gun... And short of extreme long range is almost the same as a hitscan weapon. The flak cannon alt fire is screwed. If I want to shoot it at someone close to me I have to aim at the ground in between because it seems to automatically shoot UP at a large angle... Aiming seems off but without the option in the demo to turn off weapon bob that might be why, oh and why can't I input fractions for my mouse sens? The competition in the upper skill levels of UT2K4 is intense, and these design decisions seem to bring that down. They seem to be made entirely based on the onslaught mode? Trying to make it more like Quake Wars and BF maybe? I dunno but the second I mentioned the movement differences to Raptor5399(TAM players know him I'm sure) he said the same thing everyone else I've talked to/played with said, "That was dumb"(also "Because they are dumb""Epic is losing it" etc.) . I will not be purchasing this game in the current state, sorry.
    1) The double jump is there. The dodge jump is gone, unless you're using the boots.

    2) Yep. That the movement feels like you actually have weight strikes me as a significant improvement.

    3) The early learning curve probably won't be as steep as the one in 2k4, true. The high end will still be very difficult. This is also good. It'll help the new players along the way.

    4) I never cared much for the LG/sniper debate either way. The weapon function is largely the same. I'm glad we agree.

    5) Exaggeration. The flak secondary is at a significantly different angle from earlier UTs. It'll take some getting used to.

    6) Hadn't noticed the weapon bob, but I play with it turned off anyway. I'm rather shocked to learn that the 2k4 crowd doesn't know how to modify their .ini files, however. That'll solve your mouse problems in no time.

    7) I never found the 2k3/4 matches I played in to be anywhere near as intense as the ones I played in UT99. A matter of taste, I suppose. I find fighting for my virtual life to be more exciting than running for my virtual life.

    8) Like ET:QW and BF42? No, the change bringing UT towards those games was the introduction of vehicles. The core of UT3 looks to be grounded more in deathmatch, team deathmatch, and CTF. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people having fun with the vehicle modes, though.

    9) You and another TAM player won't be buying? What a shame.

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  • replied
    High... Anyone who's played TAM has probably played with me... I'm probably recognized as a 'good' player and would like to give a nod to the clans Khz(Z, SandScorpion), PoS(Blood), TK5 crew, RIP, and everyone playing on KHZ and IHOP. I downloaded the 'leaked' demo and gave it a go and immediately noticed the lack of double jump and the fact that my player felt like he weighs 2 tons. After playing for a bit it's immediately apparent that this does indead lower the learning curve while completely pulling away from what people like myself loved about UT2K3/K4. The drop of the lightning gun makes no sense as the sniper rifle is a complete design orphan completely missing the style of the other weapons and loads even faster than the lighting gun... And short of extreme long range is almost the same as a hitscan weapon. The flak cannon alt fire is screwed. If I want to shoot it at someone close to me I have to aim at the ground in between because it seems to automatically shoot UP at a large angle... Aiming seems off but without the option in the demo to turn off weapon bob that might be why, oh and why can't I input fractions for my mouse sens? The competition in the upper skill levels of UT2K4 is intense, and these design decisions seem to bring that down. They seem to be made entirely based on the onslaught mode? Trying to make it more like Quake Wars and BF maybe? I dunno but the second I mentioned the movement differences to Raptor5399(TAM players know him I'm sure) he said the same thing everyone else I've talked to/played with said, "That was dumb"(also "Because they are dumb""Epic is losing it" etc.) . I will not be purchasing this game in the current state, sorry.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    i like boobs...and i like UT3. nuff said.
    keepin it simple is the answer.

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  • replied
    I'm right there with you OP. I like the new game and all, but it seemed like before you could really use your skills in movement to your advantage. With only a single dodge all I do is move 3-4 feet from where i was. No amazing races to the shields anymore etc. More like a Walkathon. The jump boots really help this though, I with they were more common, maybe spawning in a few places.

    Someone mentioned that it feels more heavy and less mobile like HALO. A big reason why I play UT is because it's not HALO, it's speed and the action never stops. If I were a developer i'de want to stay as far away from a HALO style as possible.

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