Is the 360 version limited?

[Sublime]

No. They'll just sell you a knew and better console with the latest greatest storage media.

How long until we go back to having games on cartridges?

True.

I give it 9 years. With the way flash storage is going these days, it could very well be possible. >_< But that's going completely off topic.

[numonex]

with that 96KB... what can be done? as the wiki said, most of the space on the DVD from UT2003/2004 isn't from the level information, but from the engine (which runs not only graphics, but physics, audio and AI processes) and textures.

there's a bit more to it than just level generation.

Agreed but the majority of the space is taken by textures and sounds. Download it and play it. Mind you its just a demo and a little buggy but when playing it remember that it can fit on a floppy 10 times over. Its pretty amazing. Now I am not saying that 360 games can fit on floppies but if I am not mistaken a significan amount of space savings can be claimed by fully implimenting this approach.

I dont ever se it happening though. Developers tend to port games, which means they are not going to recreate from the ground up just to use this process. that is pretty sad.

[Recon42]

The Xbox 360 is not limited. Microsoft is limiting the 360.Epic doesn't know the words of limits.Microsoft practically invented the word "limit"..

[Delirium Trigger]

Well this isnt a very good practice. it makes me not want to support Epic anymore. Does he think that millions of gamers that made him loot with Gears of war is going to just go out and get a PS3 because it is supposed to have more? Personally with all the games that are comming, especially Halo 3 and Bioshock, i just aswell skip over UT3 if it ever comes to 360. Maybe it shouldnt. If they cannot release the complete game then dont release it at all! Dont mess with people pocketbooks like this!

The Xbox 360 is not limited. Microsoft is limiting the 360.Epic doesn't know the words of limits.Microsoft practically invented the word "limit"..

Epic isn't to blame for this. Nore is it Microsoft's. When Microsoft decided to make their console, they wanted it to be affordable and give people options to experience a better generation of games. That basically lead to the fact that they decided to stick with DVD as their media for games over HD-DVD and the different SKUs. Since this gives consumers more affordable options, it "limits" developers with storage options.

If there's anyone there to "blame", it's the consumers. It doesn't pay to be cheap. In the long run, spending just that little extra is worth it.

[Law]

Epic isn't to blame for this. Nore is it Microsoft's. When Microsoft decided to make their console, they wanted it to be affordable and give people options to experience a better generation of games. That basically lead to the fact that they decided to stick with DVD as their media for games over HD-DVD and the different SKUs. Since this gives consumers more affordable options, it "limits" developers with storage options.

If there's anyone there to "blame", it's the consumers. It doesn't pay to be cheap. In the long run, spending just that little extra is worth it.

True that. I'm getting the PC (I want to get into modding) and the ps3 version (so I'll be able to play game at all when the game comes out.).

[JTP709]

Sooo... does that mean the PC / Mac / Linux versions will also have less content? Because the last time i checked most people didn't had a BD drive in their computers. Heck, a lot of them don't even have a DVD drive.

They'll just ship them with multiple DVDs and you can install all of the maps on your computer, duh! They used to and still do that with CDs!!!!!

The maps on the consoles are on the discs and not "installed" to the console drive.

[jambo]

Sooo... does that mean the PC / Mac / Linux versions will also have less content? Because the last time i checked most people didn't had a BD drive in their computers. Heck, a lot of them don't even have a DVD drive.

In the last Steam Hardware Survey, there were 1,047,042 unique samples and out of those, 998,689 had a DVD-ROM drive in their PC. I think it's safe to say that most people have DVD-ROMs nowadays =]

[Illuzionz]

Mark, just in case.. you need not get offended by these newb's. Some people comment before they read..some people comment before they play. It's all part of an open forum where you let people in who just sometimes join to say "epic sucks you like PS3!" then some other guy comes and says "epic sucks cause you like X360!"(you means You as in Mark rein). Now to think of it, aren't those totally contradicting?

All I'd say is, "best of luck to you making a game that makes the history of gaming itself!" "Do what you do best and what you think is really best for the game."

Thanks big time!

I didn't say anything about epic sucks. I was just asking a simple question.

And mark thank you for the news

[jphuff]

Awesome!

I continue to be disappointed that folks on the internet treat any positive thing we say about one platform as some sort of critique of another platform. We're a multi-platform company folks please come to grips with that. We like the PC. We like the 360. We like the PS3. We like the Macintosh. We like Linux. We will deliver UT3 for all of these platforms and it will rock on every one.

The simple facts state that the optical disc on the PS3 holds more data than the optical disc on the 360. If we exceed size of the 360s optical disc then we'll have to find alternative ways to get the content to 360 users such as making it downloadable. Adding a second DVD to a game like UT3 would be a challenge because when playing online you might not know exactly what map you're going to be playing next and we have to be able to accommodate users of the core system. So does that mean the disc on the 360 might have a map or two less? Possibly although it is too early to tell for sure. People love Unreal Tournament because we always ship it with tons of great content but that also makes it a bit of a disc hog - in a good way

Obviously, and as is true with most major games on 360 and PS3, you're going to be putting your hard drive to good use if you want to experience the full richness of content that UT3 will have to offer over the lifetime of the game. the fact that you can do this is a good thing.

I don't know the exact numbers but I suspect the version of Gears of War that most of our customers play today on their 360s, when you combine the downloadable content with the content on the disc, is larger than what we could fit on the 360's optical disc alone. So clearly there are perfectly good strategies to cope with this situation. We're all very used to downloading extra content for console games and with UT3 there will be lots of it for all supported platforms. In fact the cool thing about our engine is that when you make content for one platform it can run on all of them. If history is any indication, the vast majority of UT3 content won't even come from Epic - it will come from some very brilliant end users with lots of cool and innovative ideas.

When it comes to user created mods on the 360 - we will work with Microsoft to find a way to support them. We just don't have all the answers today and it isn't our chief priority at this very moment because we already have our hands completely full shipping UT3 on PC and PS3 as well as shipping Gears of War on PC. When we get those out of the way, and get a little time to spend with our friends and families, then we'll get back on this issue and figure it out.

GOOD FOR EPIC! And GOOD for Mark too!

A developer who is sick of every little word and/or shift of the eyebrow being interpreted as a slam of one platform and/or a blessing of another! I'm so sick of the fanboys running around on this and other issues.

Xbox fans- play your games and stop looking for any little thing you can try and use to jump into the PS3 or other platform forums to try and make yourselves feel superior.

PS3 fans- play your games and don't do the above either. Also, when people jump in to try and use something to make themselves feel better, try IGNORING them and going back to having fun and playing your games. Seriously, this is so ridiculous.

Epic has released good products since the "old" days. I played them on the Mac and PC and they were always good about delivering a good product on whatever platform they released on.

I'm glad Epic cares enough to set things straight. What's sad is that the fanatics can make enough noise that it's noticed even by someone at this high of a level at a company. It's truly ridiculous and makes the installed bases look like they have an average age of about 6. That's 6 years old and living on the island with the 'Lord of the Flies!'

Kudo's to Epic for taking a stand. Hopefully everyone will settle the hell down and leave each other alone. Platforms all have their respective strengths. Pick one, or multiples, and go have fun. And leave everyone else and their choices alone!

[jphuff]

Literacy FTW!

They'll just ship them with multiple DVDs and you can install all of the maps on your computer, duh! They used to and still do that with CDs!!!!!

The maps on the consoles are on the discs and not "installed" to the console drive.

Do people not know how to read? The man said there are options. Obviously this includes multiple DVD's and downloading.

BTW, I believe that the PC is actually the biggest market for Unreal games (last time I looked, but could be wrong). PC's have the ability to upgrade hardware. They can use DVD, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, whatever. GUARANTEE that if anything, the PC has the advantage. Like earlier mentioned, patching is a much easier/shorter process for the PC than a console where it has to be certified, etc.

Point is, content will be around to all platforms somehow. Epic even mentioned that if need be they could make releases of user generated content onto XBL. Yes, it's cool to be able to swap between PS3 and PC quickly, but it isn't over yet. 360 could still get this feature and even if not, there will be ways of getting other content.

People need to chill and quit trying to pounce on any little imagined scrap of news to try and make themselves feel superior and put others down. I know it's mostly happening one-sided right now, at least in the initiation, but it doesn't mean that you have to respond to it. You just make yourself look as stupid as those who start the issues.

[Night Shadow]

BTW, I believe that the PC is actually the biggest market for Unreal games (last time I looked, but could be wrong).

ya your right dude pc will always dominate the Unreal franchise. For all you noobs that don't believe me there a couple polls i remember taken back around May i think.
They show that more people will play pc that the other 2 systems combined. Now with that said maps "maybe" missing from the 360 version of the game but i'm confident that Epic will max out the HD cd with a couple of exclusive vehicles or a weapons in place of missing maps. plus you gotta remember xbox 360 has xbox live and epic may put in a clan system "like halo 2 has" or something. PS3 does not have that full capability (yet). If i may say so Sony's to busy copying off Nintendo to care about offering that service quiet yet. The point is Epic will probably balance out the 2 systems somehow and will make your $60 worth spending on all systems. I'm looking forward to a quality product Epic! Unreal Tournament rules!

[ChapsZero112]

Adding a second DVD to a game like UT3 would be a challenge because when playing online you might not know exactly what map you're going to be playing next and we have to be able to accommodate users of the core system.

In that case, couldn't the single player campaign be on one disc, with all the single player content, while the second disc contains all the multiplayer content?
And with the space that may be left on the first disc, fill it with maps that can be decompressed to the hard drive. And release those same maps as downloadable content for the core users that have big enough memory cards. That should tempt them to buy a hard drive so problems with the core users not having storage space do not occur as frequently.
The core system has been holding back to potential of the premium and elite models with the ability to store and decompress data, and I think Microsoft is even noticing that.

[numonex]

I didn't say anything about epic sucks. I was just asking a simple question.

And mark thank you for the news

I dont think anyone here is saying mark or Epic sucks, at least I am not. What I am saying is that if UT releases for 360 at the same price as the PS3 version containing less then I will pass the game over. Sorry but 360 owners should have to pay the same for less. In that respect I may be pigheaded. for that I am sorry.

[Sublime]

In that case, couldn't the single player campaign be on one disc, with all the single player content, while the second disc contains all the multiplayer content?
And with the space that may be left on the first disc, fill it with maps that can be decompressed to the hard drive. And release those same maps as downloadable content for the core users that have big enough memory cards. That should tempt them to buy a hard drive so problems with the core users not having storage space do not occur as frequently.
The core system has been holding back to potential of the premium and elite models with the ability to store and decompress data, and I think Microsoft is even noticing that.

As I already told someone yesterday. Removing the multiplayer aspect would hardly save any space at all, it wouldn't be worth it. And I'd rather have a couple less maps than loose multiplayer functionality.

[GoodBoy]

DVD-rom drives aer cheap.

... The US are not the center of the universe, wich means not every single computer out there has a DVD drive in it. ... Again, the US are not the center of the universe and the rest of the world is very different from your neighborhood, so don't judge everyone else based on your narrow view.

DVD BURNERS can be found online for $30. If you cannot afford a DVD-ROM drive (cheaper than burners), then how will you pay for the game that will cost twice as much (as the dvd drive required to install it)? Steal/Pirate it?

I say for PC's only release it on DVD. It makes more and more sense to do this these days. I myself prefer games on DVD, and when looking for a certain game if I find that one store only has it on CDROM I wait and continue looking and try to get it on DVD.

For the Xbox360, just release it on 2 or 3 DVD's (however many it takes), and make the game require a hardrive. 2 of the discs can be installed into the Xbox360 hardrive. This would make the game likely load up faster anyway, running from the HD instead of the DVD.

I can't wait for the PC DVD-rom version.