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  • replied
    I wouldn't recommend double jumping when someone is firing flakshells at you. I really wouldn't recommend using the double jump when someone is firing flak primary at you.
    The double jump might be useful against triple rockets fired at the floor. Just hope your enemy doesn't decide to aim at you in mid-air instead.

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  • replied
    UT2k4's double jump/dodge/dodge jump/wall dodge (jump) all are parts of UT2k4 and all are USEFUL. dont ever think double jump is useless...

    their are (dis)advantages of all of them.

    useful Against
    Rockets: double jump mixed with dodge (close range), dodge jump (long range)
    Flak Primary: dodge jump, double jump
    Flak ball: double jump
    shock beam/lightning: Dodge with a mix of random ground movement
    Shock combo: dodge jump
    Minigun: mix of EVERYTHING

    using the right thing at the right time is really important. for example, dodge jump is very bad against flak ball (and sometimes, in close range, rockets).
    wall dodging every once in a while can put your opponent in confusion.

    on the other hand, using the right weapon with right firing mode depending on your enemy's movement is also needed.

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  • replied
    the original flipping of the UT99 characters should return :P

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  • replied
    in ut2k4 when side double jumping, female players would do a sort of barrel roll thing, that was awesome. It should be included for male players too.

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  • replied
    Actually when I order a bot to hold a certain position and hold down centerview, the crosshair ends up pretty much at eyeheight. Well, unless it's our stunted friend Gorge.
    (edit) Turns out centerview actually tilts your view downwards slightly; you're really looking from your forehead, apparently. I don't think that really makes a big difference though.

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  • replied
    The irony of scale question in UT3 is in fact that height of view is on top of a model, so every other player looks smaller then you. The only thing I admit wrong in UT2004 (but not 2003) stayed, lol.

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  • replied
    Ah I'd be highly surprised if the scale would be the same as UT. But if there is a way to port maps over then all we need are some UU measurement tests and go from there.

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  • replied
    I hope it will be 1:1 U/UT scale. It would be much easir to remake old (and good) maps.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Molgan View Post
    I would say it's more of a "it's not exactly as the original UT" problem then a game play problem.
    No it's not. That ledge was already quite high in UT, if it had to be made even higher just to prevent people from hopping on it like it was nothing, it'd start looking weird. Plus it may cause problems in other areas, like having to make a ramp that leads up there too steep, stuff like that.
    Basically, the more the player can (and wants to) do, the harder it becomes for a mapper to design a map to look like something out of the real world. In UT most areas in the game already needed to have incredibly high ceilings because a player can jump nearly 2 meters high, the double jump makes that considerably worse.

    Originally posted by Molgan View Post
    Z-axis is a good thing.
    Exaggerated vertical scale is not.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
    The double jump caused similar problems, only by allowing people to get up to much higher places; a place like the Thigh Pads pickup in Coret, you'd just be able to double jump up that spot in UT2004, even though the inability to get up there without a hammerjump was part of the map's flow. If you wanted that area to be inaccessible in UT2004, you'd have to make the ledge a lot higher.
    Of course, exaggerated vertical scale is more of a visual problem and less of a gameplay problem.
    I would say it's more of a "it's not exactly as the original UT" problem then a game play problem.

    Z-axis is a good thing.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Ultron View Post
    The thing for me about double jumping and particularly the other moves is those moves often became the lowest common denomintor in fights. It became almost neccessary to do that all the time in order to be competative.
    Actually I barely ever dodgejump in a fight. I sometimes use it to get away more quickly, but only in combination with the shield.

    The main problem with the dodgejump IMO was that it made it so easy to create distance between yourself and the enemy. It did NOT make it easier to get closer to the enemy except in some situations when combined with a walldodge around a corner.
    That, of course, also caused a lot of the scale problems we've been having; because it's there and because people are used to using it to create distance, the maps have to be designed to allow for that, which is simply not possible with ceilings less than 4m high and hallways less than 10m long.

    Originally posted by Molgan View Post
    I don't understand why people are so upset by the double jump thou. To me it doesn't matter if it's in or not, but if you have played 2k4 you should know that double jumps are rarely useful in combat.
    The double jump caused similar problems, only by allowing people to get up to much higher places; a place like the Thigh Pads pickup in Coret, you'd just be able to double jump up that spot in UT2004, even though the inability to get up there without a hammerjump was part of the map's flow. If you wanted that area to be inaccessible in UT2004, you'd have to make the ledge a lot higher.
    Of course, exaggerated vertical scale is more of a visual problem and less of a gameplay problem.

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  • replied
    Removing the dodge jump made it possible to scale things down to ut99 levels. From the vids shown it looks like the maps will be a bit more spacious maybe, but fights are much more grounded and in-your-face. UT99 maps was made out of solid BSP, but UT3 will use mostly static meshes. Hopefully maps will be built with playability as focus, and the work flow Epic described (blocking out game play first by building basically UT99 maps and then beautify it without changing the basics) sounds promising.


    I don't understand why people are so upset by the double jump thou. To me it doesn't matter if it's in or not, but if you have played 2k4 you should know that double jumps are rarely useful in combat. You turn into a pretty easy target by using it and you mostly don't gain any kind of advantage from it. The good thing is that you can do small jumps in a fight without taking too much air time, and bigger jumps when you need to go to places or extend wall dodges.

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  • replied
    Flak said she played it and it was more like UT1 than UT2kX.

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  • replied
    The thing for me about double jumping and particularly the other moves is those moves often became the lowest common denomintor in fights. It became almost neccessary to do that all the time in order to be competative. Not to say there weren't downsides to double jumping and dodge-jumping as incentives to doing them, such as the forced pause at the end of the dodge-jump. But that didn't outweigh the usefulness of the moves so they were done all the time.

    That's a lot of fricken work, and it took more out of me playing UT2 than it ever did playing UT. I could play for several hours on UT, but after a couple in UT2 I was wore out. Even after playing off and on for a year I couldn't handle the tap-tap this and tap-tap that.

    Personally I'd prefer a mantling system ala Unreal 2 to a double jump, and just make our single jump high enough to not need a double jump, anyways. But the double jump could definitely have uses as a way to trigger jump boots, as has been mentioned by somewhat at Epic. That being the case I'm not against the double jump any more.

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  • replied
    Agreed, I never really noticed that issue. I just got used to double tapping and always double jumping, where my issue always was judging where they would land and considing my main style of attacking if using rockets was catching someone while they were jumping putting a couple of rockets where they were going to land then joggle them till they died.

    I have lost a good few friends doing that too ... well they still talk to me but will never play against me in 99

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