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    Scale question

    With regards to scale in UT3. Is it going to be similar to the 2k* or ut99?

    #2
    **** they had scale perfected in '99 ... well i guess i'll wait for this awesome demo.

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      #3
      It's supposedly very much like UT99 in terms of player movement. Ironically UT2k4 had nearly player movement with the exception of some things like the arc of dodges, the existance of double jumps, dodge-jumps and wall-dodge jumps (and the quirky boosting ability).

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        #4
        Originally posted by Ultron View Post
        It's supposedly very much like UT99 in terms of player movement. Ironically UT2k4 had nearly player movement with the exception of some things like the arc of dodges, the existance of double jumps, dodge-jumps and wall-dodge jumps (and the quirky boosting ability).
        Those few exceptions really did make a big difference, in '99 I was able to time peoples jumping patterns using a good 120BPS trance song, I was never able to master the timing of jump/landing of players with the double jumps, etc.

        I hope they got rid of that campy bunny hoping ****. dodging is one thing everything else was useless

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          #5
          Well the main problem was the dodge-jumps, and as a byproduct, boosted dodge-jumps. Double jump is still silly, but I can see it has some legitimate uses as a way of activating jump boots. I just don't want to feel like I _have_ to double jump just to get around on maps.

          "oh no I can't get on a crate unless I double jump"

          That sorta thing. UT2's jump height was too low, and neccessitated double jumps too often in my book.

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            #6
            Agreed, I never really noticed that issue. I just got used to double tapping and always double jumping, where my issue always was judging where they would land and considing my main style of attacking if using rockets was catching someone while they were jumping putting a couple of rockets where they were going to land then joggle them till they died.

            I have lost a good few friends doing that too ... well they still talk to me but will never play against me in 99

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              #7
              The thing for me about double jumping and particularly the other moves is those moves often became the lowest common denomintor in fights. It became almost neccessary to do that all the time in order to be competative. Not to say there weren't downsides to double jumping and dodge-jumping as incentives to doing them, such as the forced pause at the end of the dodge-jump. But that didn't outweigh the usefulness of the moves so they were done all the time.

              That's a lot of fricken work, and it took more out of me playing UT2 than it ever did playing UT. I could play for several hours on UT, but after a couple in UT2 I was wore out. Even after playing off and on for a year I couldn't handle the tap-tap this and tap-tap that.

              Personally I'd prefer a mantling system ala Unreal 2 to a double jump, and just make our single jump high enough to not need a double jump, anyways. But the double jump could definitely have uses as a way to trigger jump boots, as has been mentioned by somewhat at Epic. That being the case I'm not against the double jump any more.

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                #8
                Flak said she played it and it was more like UT1 than UT2kX.

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                  #9
                  Removing the dodge jump made it possible to scale things down to ut99 levels. From the vids shown it looks like the maps will be a bit more spacious maybe, but fights are much more grounded and in-your-face. UT99 maps was made out of solid BSP, but UT3 will use mostly static meshes. Hopefully maps will be built with playability as focus, and the work flow Epic described (blocking out game play first by building basically UT99 maps and then beautify it without changing the basics) sounds promising.


                  I don't understand why people are so upset by the double jump thou. To me it doesn't matter if it's in or not, but if you have played 2k4 you should know that double jumps are rarely useful in combat. You turn into a pretty easy target by using it and you mostly don't gain any kind of advantage from it. The good thing is that you can do small jumps in a fight without taking too much air time, and bigger jumps when you need to go to places or extend wall dodges.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Ultron View Post
                    The thing for me about double jumping and particularly the other moves is those moves often became the lowest common denomintor in fights. It became almost neccessary to do that all the time in order to be competative.
                    Actually I barely ever dodgejump in a fight. I sometimes use it to get away more quickly, but only in combination with the shield.

                    The main problem with the dodgejump IMO was that it made it so easy to create distance between yourself and the enemy. It did NOT make it easier to get closer to the enemy except in some situations when combined with a walldodge around a corner.
                    That, of course, also caused a lot of the scale problems we've been having; because it's there and because people are used to using it to create distance, the maps have to be designed to allow for that, which is simply not possible with ceilings less than 4m high and hallways less than 10m long.

                    Originally posted by Molgan View Post
                    I don't understand why people are so upset by the double jump thou. To me it doesn't matter if it's in or not, but if you have played 2k4 you should know that double jumps are rarely useful in combat.
                    The double jump caused similar problems, only by allowing people to get up to much higher places; a place like the Thigh Pads pickup in Coret, you'd just be able to double jump up that spot in UT2004, even though the inability to get up there without a hammerjump was part of the map's flow. If you wanted that area to be inaccessible in UT2004, you'd have to make the ledge a lot higher.
                    Of course, exaggerated vertical scale is more of a visual problem and less of a gameplay problem.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Boksha View Post
                      The double jump caused similar problems, only by allowing people to get up to much higher places; a place like the Thigh Pads pickup in Coret, you'd just be able to double jump up that spot in UT2004, even though the inability to get up there without a hammerjump was part of the map's flow. If you wanted that area to be inaccessible in UT2004, you'd have to make the ledge a lot higher.
                      Of course, exaggerated vertical scale is more of a visual problem and less of a gameplay problem.
                      I would say it's more of a "it's not exactly as the original UT" problem then a game play problem.

                      Z-axis is a good thing.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Molgan View Post
                        I would say it's more of a "it's not exactly as the original UT" problem then a game play problem.
                        No it's not. That ledge was already quite high in UT, if it had to be made even higher just to prevent people from hopping on it like it was nothing, it'd start looking weird. Plus it may cause problems in other areas, like having to make a ramp that leads up there too steep, stuff like that.
                        Basically, the more the player can (and wants to) do, the harder it becomes for a mapper to design a map to look like something out of the real world. In UT most areas in the game already needed to have incredibly high ceilings because a player can jump nearly 2 meters high, the double jump makes that considerably worse.

                        Originally posted by Molgan View Post
                        Z-axis is a good thing.
                        Exaggerated vertical scale is not.

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                          #13
                          I hope it will be 1:1 U/UT scale. It would be much easir to remake old (and good) maps.

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                            #14
                            Ah I'd be highly surprised if the scale would be the same as UT. But if there is a way to port maps over then all we need are some UU measurement tests and go from there.

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                              #15
                              The irony of scale question in UT3 is in fact that height of view is on top of a model, so every other player looks smaller then you. The only thing I admit wrong in UT2004 (but not 2003) stayed, lol.

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