Consecutive Dodging

[ziadoz]

I understand the logic behind this idea, but I still disagree. I don't even see the point in keeping the wall dodge in UT3 personally, unless they are actually going to utilise it in the maps that is.

Perhaps its just the UT2004 dodge fest that's given me this opinion, but the less evolution the dodge system does from UT99 the better.

[Molgan]

the less evolution the dodge system does from UT99 the better.

2k4 players have feelings too, a TOTAL ut99 conversion would make us sad. I wont miss the dodge jump, but wall dodge is one of those things that makes playing and especially mapping so much more fun.

[ziadoz]

2k4 players have feelings too, a TOTAL ut99 conversion would make us sad. I wont miss the dodge jump, but wall dodge is one of those things that makes playing and especially mapping so much more fun.

There always was a stark contrast between the way UT99 and UT2004 were played:

[shot]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j282/fcwedd/done6.gif[/shot]

[Molgan]

N1, that actually made me roll on the floor laughing.

[DefJam101]

Now that dodge jump is gone there is no reason why you can't dodge off a wall after a dodge, it would just be another way to protect yourself against hitscan.

Infinite dodges does NOT belong though, only one.

[ziadoz]

N1, that actually made me roll on the floor laughing.

Made me laugh too. Found it over in the forums at BeyondUnreal.

[Crotale]

Now that dodge jump is gone there is no reason why you can't dodge off a wall after a dodge, it would just be another way to protect yourself against hitscan.

Infinite dodges does NOT belong though, only one.

This I can agree with. IMO, if you enable multiple dodges, we will end up back where you get overscaled maps due to the added mobility many players will "find" in using the trick moves. I know Boksha in his infinite wisdom, and I mean this sincerely, believes the ability to dodge right after another dodge will make a player less vulnerable to hitscan, and is true in most circumstances. But, like I said, if players use this feature with endless dodging to create trick moves and the maps get overscaled, we are back to hitscan domination once again.

Therefore, a single dodge right after another dodge will be acceptable, but not successive multiple dodges. If you need to use the dodge for mobility in UT3, as many players do in UT2, that means the maps aren't scaled or designed properly.

I, for one, am looking forward to a more grounded version of UT. From looking at the numerous Comic-Con videos, I'm not too worried at this point.

[Molgan]

Therefore, a single dodge right after another dodge will be acceptable, but not successive multiple dodges. If you need to use the dodge for mobility in UT3, as many players do in UT2, that means the maps aren't scaled or designed properly.

I, for one, am looking forward to a more grounded version of UT. From looking at the numerous Comic-Con videos, I'm not too worried at this point.

After giving it some more thought I agree. Single wall dodge is enough, so try to pretend my earlier post never happened. ^^ After testing it out I see that unlimited wall dodge can be pretty abused.. And speaking of the vids, these discussion help us kill some time waiting for the demo, but I doubt they will change fundamental stuff like wall dodges this late in the development.

(man can't stop laughing at that karate kid..)

[Boksha]

An extra walldodge means a direction change, not moving further in the same direction like the dodgejump. As such I don't think it'll cause much of a problem with causing maps to overscale even if you did allow unlimited extra walldodges, because it doesn't require any extra space like the dodgejump. I agree a single walldodge would be better though.
First because like I said, infinite walldodges would allow you to walldodge back and forth forever in small corridors, secondly because it would let FCs in CTF move at dodge speed constantly, which is a bad thing for attack/defense balance.

[Kronos]

If you need to use the dodge for mobility in UT3, as many players do in UT2, that means the maps aren't scaled or designed properly.

I'm not going to move totally against that thought but dodging in even UT1 is used for moving across the map quicker. Unless they add a larger delay to when you can dodge again, dodging will always be used to get across the map quickly.

[Crotale]

I know that Kronos. It's called "bunnyhopping", or at least, that's what I always thought of it as being. I'm talking more about the exaggerated types of dodging we saw in UT2. I'm glad those are gone. It was always irritating to see a map made with shield and DD pickups in hard to reach places because the map author designed it that way for the dodge-jumping pros. That, and the fact that so many maps were so overscaled that hitscan became the dominating weapon type.

[mhoaa]

how about the instantaneous left/right dodges of the bots in UT2004? Yes, I know that was something they could do and that humans couldn't do but I wonder if human players could do that , whether hit scan would have been harder and hence less hit scan whoring. I fully agree that UT should have it's own intricate dodge system, so consecutive dodge and wall dodge by all means, but go in the other direction and remove all the dodging that makes UT special, nerf dodging coz there are dodging pros, nerf shock gun coz there are shock gun pros, heck nerf everything...... etc etc etc and all you have left is another crappy shooter with more flashy lights than usual.

[Boksha]

Ooooooooohkaaaaaaaaay....

[Crotale]

I never said to remove all of it. You are taking my words out of context. Same with my dodge-jump pros statement. I wasn't stating that the game should be nerfed, but many maps that were designed for a specific niche group of players didn't exactly serve to keep the game going for the general UT populace.

I won't mind consecutive dodging as long as the maps aren't overscaled to accommodate it.

If you are one of those players who thrive on UT2's more elaborate movement style and system, that's fine. For me, I prefer a more grounded UT. And by that I do not mean a newer, prettier UT. It's just that I would much rather play with and against players who use more than two weapons. If I wanted to play hitscan only, I would go with the ultimate HS game mode...Instagib. IG is okay for the occasional match, but I prefer using a multitude of weapons with a variety of firing modes. To me, THAT is what makes UT stand out from the rest of the point and click crowd.

[p|atinum]

Movement is what makes the UT genre different from any other FPS. I you want a more classic style game please go play it. If you can't move like a pro learn how to. Hitscan is a dominate weapon type and will be in UT 3, I am willing to bet. If you learned how to move, and didn't complain, you wouldn't get owned by hitscan all the time.

Please don't jack a thread with garbage ramblings!!!!