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UT3 1v1 - Too stacked up on health/vials/armor?

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    UT3 1v1 - Too stacked up on health/vials/armor?

    I've been playing UT99 since 2001. Furthermore, I've also delved into the 2KX scene for a very brief amount of time. My concern about UT3 is in regards to the vials & shield stacking. This, imo, was a huge turnoff in the 2KX series. If one had control of the 100/50 shield while stacking on vials, he or she can absorb an absurd amount of flak, shock, and lightning gun. It also allows whoever is in control to play sloppy with suicidal-like flak and rocket dodges right on top of the enemy. It turns any mediocre player who can time power-ups well into a monster; it's not as skill based. In UT99, your opponent has a pretty good chance of regaining map control with 1-2 well placed sniper shots or a nice shock combo. Because of this, the controller has very little room for error, whereas it's no big deal in 2k4 due to the mass amounts of health & shield.

    I havn't read anything about the "stacking" issues of UT3. Does anyone know?

    Thanks.

    #2
    I am a mediocre player... some rare times when I'm not playing for fun I can master the shields times, but my target system is very poor and frequently various players can defeat me easily without touching the shields.

    I don't see problems in shield/vials. Taking off the DD is enough for me

    Comment


      #3
      xs_pain? :O

      About the subject, intresting, when thinking about it i dont think EPIC has ever mentioned something about 1on1 nor "stacking issues", which is kinda worrying, because 1on1 was always the main pro mod in UT series.

      Anyhow i do remember reading that no weapon in UT3 would take more then 6 shots to kill ( ofcourse except the minigun/pulse i guess ), and i believe that without the shieldgun the game would be more offensive and skill-based ( some ppl call it aim-based, personaly i think aim is skills ).

      Comment


        #4
        IMO no changes are needed. Things look just fine. Please don't judge before playing! All this Shield and vial stuff basically got hot spots for fighting and lead to exploring and finding vials and getting shields before others. It helps alot in competitive online UT that I play.

        Comment


          #5
          Now that I'm finally mastering use of the shield gun I'll kind of miss that function, but I can still do Impact Hammer Jumps, so that's good...

          Very rarely have I run into players who abuse things like you mentioned. I had a guy own me once... couldn't kill him. Then I found out the jerk was just camping right on the 100+ shield each time it spawned then heading over to DD... Any time he got close to death, he'd shield and run away. RUN AWAY... Run away to get more health and health vials... Stupid. We were 1v1 btw...

          I can understand a tactical move to win the game or something but he was beating me terribly (like 15 kills to 0) and the coward couldn't just have an actual battle... he had to load up on powerups, then fight me, and if I still almost killed him he stinking ran away with the shield. So annoying.

          If we had played without powerups the game would've been a LOT closer. Taking out the shield, if nothing more, prevents people like that from ruining UT.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by depain View Post
            I've been playing UT99 since 2001. Furthermore, I've also delved into the 2KX scene for a very brief amount of time. My concern about UT3 is in regards to the vials & shield stacking. This, imo, was a huge turnoff in the 2KX series. If one had control of the 100/50 shield while stacking on vials, he or she can absorb an absurd amount of flak, shock, and lightning gun. It also allows whoever is in control to play sloppy with suicidal-like flak and rocket dodges right on top of the enemy. It turns any mediocre player who can time power-ups well into a monster; it's not as skill based. In UT99, your opponent has a pretty good chance of regaining map control with 1-2 well placed sniper shots or a nice shock combo. Because of this, the controller has very little room for error, whereas it's no big deal in 2k4 due to the mass amounts of health & shield.

            I havn't read anything about the "stacking" issues of UT3. Does anyone know?

            Thanks.
            I support this also, in ut99 a 1-1 was interesting imo because the shield and quad were balanced, in ut2k3/4 i would often see ppl with big shield and max health starting to duel , and when they got low they woud just run to get more, so the game stop being a fragfiest and duels got boring ,one thing is mastering the Pu's another thing is saturating maps with it to the extent that any direct shot is not even a threat, when i 1-1 i like to kill/be killed fast not spend an enternity buffing up so i can go duel and run when im low on PU's

            Comment


              #7
              Although I'm not quite sure how stacking a UT99 armor vest with health vials is so much different from stacking health vials on a 2k4 shield (even to the most hardcore of players the change is minor), I can say that the UT3 health / armor system is very similar to the UT99 system.

              There are no more shields/supershields; the armor and shieldbelt are making a comeback.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by B0T0X View Post
                Now that I'm finally mastering use of the shield gun I'll kind of miss that function, but I can still do Impact Hammer Jumps, so that's good...

                Very rarely have I run into players who abuse things like you mentioned. I had a guy own me once... couldn't kill him. Then I found out the jerk was just camping right on the 100+ shield each time it spawned then heading over to DD... Any time he got close to death, he'd shield and run away. RUN AWAY... Run away to get more health and health vials... Stupid. We were 1v1 btw...

                I can understand a tactical move to win the game or something but he was beating me terribly (like 15 kills to 0) and the coward couldn't just have an actual battle... he had to load up on powerups, then fight me, and if I still almost killed him he stinking ran away with the shield. So annoying.

                If we had played without powerups the game would've been a LOT closer. Taking out the shield, if nothing more, prevents people like that from ruining UT.
                This kind of powerup gameplay can be frustrating, yes and may result in the kind of score you quoted, but it does NOT ruin ut. Removing these pickups would do that though. If your opponent is hogging and timing the pickups, then challenge him! Get to them before him, or use his predictable behaviour to take him out. Thats the balence with powerful powerups, a good mapper will put them in either a hard to reach or vulnerable place, so you should exploit that rather than whine about it. Theres this one DM level in ut2k4 where the supershield is on planks at the top of the map against a wall. On playing masterful bots i began to notice their pattern of when they would head to the pickup - and ambush them before they reach it giving you a kill and the pickup. There are plenty of ways round it and its silly to complain - without these pickups the game would be alot less fun.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                  Although I'm not quite sure how stacking a UT99 armor vest with health vials is so much different from stacking health vials on a 2k4 shield (even to the most hardcore of players the change is minor), I can say that the UT3 health / armor system is very similar to the UT99 system.

                  There are no more shields/supershields; the armor and shieldbelt are making a comeback.
                  Thanks Jim for the official word. Sounds great to have a level designer finally speak. Anyways you got peoples doubts cleared and I thank you once again.

                  Now DID YOU HEAR HIM!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by depain View Post
                    I've been playing UT99 since 2001. Furthermore, I've also delved into the 2KX scene for a very brief amount of time. My concern about UT3 is in regards to the vials & shield stacking. This, imo, was a huge turnoff in the 2KX series. If one had control of the 100/50 shield while stacking on vials, he or she can absorb an absurd amount of flak, shock, and lightning gun. It also allows whoever is in control to play sloppy with suicidal-like flak and rocket dodges right on top of the enemy. It turns any mediocre player who can time power-ups well into a monster; it's not as skill based. In UT99, your opponent has a pretty good chance of regaining map control with 1-2 well placed sniper shots or a nice shock combo. Because of this, the controller has very little room for error, whereas it's no big deal in 2k4 due to the mass amounts of health & shield.

                    I havn't read anything about the "stacking" issues of UT3. Does anyone know?

                    Thanks.
                    I'm pretty sure UT3 has a shield belt so maybe it has the UT99 armor system?

                    I don't think it makes it less skill-based, it just changes the kind of skill required. You fight over control of the armors mostly, and all your well-placed shots have to be in that context. Of course, that's boring as hell for a lot of non-UT2K4 players so I can see why it's a bad idea.

                    And as we can see from this thread, it was also unpopular with a lot of normal players who hated the stacking.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sweet. It'll feel like old times. I'm sort of glad the old stuff is back. It's not particularly different, but nostalgic for sure.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Uhm.. Can someone explain the main differences about the armor and belt?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          belt suffers the damage without taking down your health untill it destroyed ( 150 hp in UT99 ) while armor suffers the damage and taking down your health with it aswell.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                            Although I'm not quite sure how stacking a UT99 armor vest with health vials is so much different from stacking health vials on a 2k4 shield (even to the most hardcore of players the change is minor), I can say that the UT3 health / armor system is very similar to the UT99 system.

                            There are no more shields/supershields; the armor and shieldbelt are making a comeback.
                            It's not different. However, the damage rate of the weapons in UT was higher than in UT2k4, so killing a fully stacked player by shooting him first or lucking out was easier.
                            In UT2k4 the damage rates on the weapons are lower so the player that has the most armour is more likely to win.

                            As a sidenote, many UT2k4 maps that get played in 1on1 have plainly too many health vials. Let's all blame David M√ľnnich.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Entropy View Post
                              Although I'm not quite sure how stacking a UT99 armor vest with health vials is so much different from stacking health vials on a 2k4 shield (even to the most hardcore of players the change is minor), I can say that the UT3 health / armor system is very similar to the UT99 system.

                              There are no more shields/supershields; the armor and shieldbelt are making a comeback.
                              I love you.

                              Btw, the pro-level 1v1 servers in UT99 never supported powerups other than armor / pads / boots. However, the pro-level Europeans did use powerups via 1v1. Even in their 1v1 matches, the stacking didn't seem nearly as bad as it was in 2KX. Hmm, perhaps the weapon damage? Whatever it was, it was executed superbly!

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