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Weapons locker - old and new

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Xyx View Post
    Unreal Tournament != Unreal. Unreal Tournament focuses on exotic and spectacular ways to kill, and the minigun, sniper and enforcer fall short there.
    Oh yeah. Killing someone with the linkgun or shockrifle primary is so much more spectacular than taking his head off with the sniper or pumping him full of bullets until he explodes.
    Seriously, that's a load of bollox. Unreal and Unreal Tournament are the same universe. Maybe UT is about spectacular ways of killing people but the sci-fi weapons are no more spectacular than the conventional weapons in that sense.
    And the game is certainly not about exotic ways of killing. You're shooting people. With weapons. And if exoticism was the main purpose of the game, why would UT have the enforcer, mini and sniper in? And why would Epic bring those back? After all, UT is about whatever Epic wants it to be. And apparently they don't think the enforcers and sniper fall short.

    Ready... go!

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  • replied
    Unreal Tournament != Unreal. Unreal Tournament focuses on exotic and spectacular ways to kill, and the minigun, sniper and enforcer fall short there.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Devastator View Post
    Minigun doesn't fit in the scenery. All the other weapons have a wicked look to them and really fit in a futuristic gun fight.
    I strongly disagree.
    IMO Unreal was never about getting rid of all contemporary weaponry just for the sake of being futuristic. Unreal Tournament had some more energy type weapons than Unreal because their functionality is more generic, i.e. you can achieve more interesting gameplay with them (there is no contemporary equivalent of a shockcombo or a weapon that has a strict maximum range before which it hurts for 100% and after which it doesn't do damage at all like the pulsegun) but weapons like miniguns, pistols and sniper rifles definitely have their place in Unreal and UT, while a gun that looks futuristic but does absolutely nothing a regular rifle can't, like the LG, really feels out of place IMO.
    The stinger however is a fairly classic weapon (both in concept and because it was in Unreal), so I don't mind it being in.

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  • replied
    Minigun doesn't fit in the scenery. All the other weapons have a wicked look to them and really fit in a futuristic gun fight. Mini looks like something your mother could go buy at Wal-Mart. Stinger FTW.

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  • replied
    replacing the assualt rifles is ok..but why the minigun?? i like the stinger as it was and its a nice gun, but not as a replacement of the mini

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  • replied
    at the mo im playing GOTY and dual enforcers are pretty powerful! i've got up to god-like on a killing spree before using dual enforcers

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Jrubzjeknf View Post
    So when the hell are we gonna discuss weapon lockers?
    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
    and yeah weapons lockers should be included in CTF I rekon
    Too late hehe

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Jrubzjeknf View Post
    So when the hell are we gonna discuss weapon lockers?
    Hey don't go off topic now.

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  • replied
    So when the hell are we gonna discuss weapon lockers?

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  • replied
    maybe im the only one that loves the assult rifles? i often play deathmatches on ut:04 with 40 bots including my self,duel assult rifles along with the other weapons picking of enemy after enemy, i cant be sure how many people i've killed off using them, but i can say this from experience, if a weapon is learnt to be used properly it can achieve many, many kills.

    I guess my techniek is this:

    1. never stand still unless you have to,
    2. ALLWAYS look for more ammo
    3. hold the trigger down AND GIVE IT HELL!

    i usually set the kill gauge to 200 which is a good way to kill 30 minutes or less..i think my fastest 200 kills was less then 25 minutes but id have to do it again and get back to you!

    before i finish this post, does any one else miss the sound of the bouncing shells from the enforcer?

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  • replied
    Another issue I thought of with the assfile as well is that it is fairly difficult to get your hands on 2 where it was more common to get 2 enforcers. Its not like heaps easier but I think the spawn protection made it harder to get your hands on them. The grenade mode as well when holding 2 since its a charged mode isnt much quicker then firing a single unless you tap it really quick so you loose all the distance anyways. I guess I just never understood why they went with 2 rifles and now it seems the enforcers are going to be more like a SMP or a SMG which is what the assfile was heading towards anyways.

    I think smaller single hand weapons which dont require a stock kinda look better for dual anims anyways because you get that alternating between shots which you dont get with 2 assault rifles or smg's.

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  • replied
    Obviously, the questions are now answered: Assualt Rifle is useless for accuracy and damage while the Enforcers can actually hit the target and deal some damage.

    Why not scrap the idea of the Assualt Rifle and Enforcers and come up with something completely different? A few ideas are:

    No weapon except the shield gun. (DEFINITELY not a very good idea, lol, yet...) Maybe upgrade the shield gun to make up for it?

    Some sort of slow-rate-of-fire plasma gun? I'm thinking the plasma of a Manta/Raptor, dealing about 15-25 damage per hit, but maybe 1 bullet per..... second? 1/2 second?

    =)

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  • replied
    The Enforcer did 25 points of damage per shot, for about twice a second. And double that if you had Dual Enforcers. The Assault Rifle did something like 8 points of damage but several a second (maybe 4) but the accuracy was much worse than the Enforcers. And it didn't help that it sounded really weak.

    Just to highlight the point about accuracy. Primary fire for Enforcers and Dual Enforcers were pretty tight. The original Unreal automag fired at the center of the pointer, and was 100% accurate. The Enforcers were slightly inaccurate because it used a specific spray pattern that was designed to not be as exploitable as the automag predecessor, until you used the alternate fire. At that point a different spray pattern was used which was noticably wider. Yet for close range it was still accurate enough.

    With the Assault Rifle you had only a primary fire, with a spray pattern that was worse than the Enforcer primary, yet not as bad as the Enforcer secondary. Then you had the grenade alt fire. The bottom line is that as far as a hitscan weapon it was really weak because it was fairly inaccurate, and it sounded really weak, too. Many of us called it a pellet gun, who's only saving grace was a grenade that was pretty powerful, but even then it had a tiny blast radius and wasn't as easy to place as other projectiles.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
    I obviously agree, but there's another problem with the Assault Rifle which lies in it's type of weapon. Being an autofire weapon, it's individual shots cannot and should not be powerful. In damage per second, the assault rifle is barely any different from the enforcer (at least considering all weapons in UT2k4 were weaker); sure, the enforcers did 25 damage per shot, but they fired maybe three times per second or less, meaning it did about 70 damage/second while the AR does 48 per second. What makes the AR so ****ty is it's low accuracy of course, but if it was accurate it'd still feel like a weak POS because of the damage of the individual bullets. (or more precisely: because of the amount of hits it takes to take the enemy down)
    With a slow firing weapon, I think it's much easier to give it a good sense of power even if in actual damage/second or usefulness it's as good or even less good than a faster firing counterpart.
    I honestly think it was only balanced for holding 2 weapons and in my opinion would make a nice secondary weapon to the enforcer if it was only allowed in single mode. If the enforcer does 70 damage/second then 2 would do 140 compared the AR's 96 damage/second which is just over what a single enforcer can do and holding 2 is just as inaccurate. They could have lowered the accuracy when holding 2 vs one to balance it instead really.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
    Most people just don't seem to get it and keep repeating "OMG we should keep the lightning gun because it does more damage/switches faster/fires faster!". (yes, someone actually said that last one)
    Just...

    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
    but there's another problem with the Assault Rifle which lies in it's type of weapon
    ///
    With a slow firing weapon, I think it's much easier to give it a good sense of power even if in actual damage/second or usefulness it's as good or even less good than a faster firing counterpart.
    Good points all - that's the kind of logical thinking that should go into the weapon choices, whether or not you should fell like you're firing off Dirty Harry style hand cannon shots or spraying a rambo-rain or anything in between, for example and not just basing it all on how the weaps worked in past-games.

    Personally though, I'm of the opposite opinion when it comes to taste - I quite like the way the AssRifle feels like a toy - it kinda encourages you to hunt for decent weapons, but at the same time I'm also on board the the legions who want it to be more powerful.
    I suppose I want to have my cake and shoot it with an AssRifle, I like the way it's visual and sound effects feel puny, and how it takes minigun-like tracking to inflict damage, but in code I do want it's damage values to be higher, so you can at least use it to kill folks.

    However, that's all just personal opinion - what's important is the way the choices are made, and as long as the devs use common sense (which I'm sure they will ) then I'm happy.

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