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    #31
    Originally posted by Modulus View Post
    And the primary fire is not hitscan...

    ,,,

    Just wanted to clear that up.

    Primary fire IS hitscan, actually.

    http://utforums.epicgames.com/showpo...7&postcount=19

    His other posts saying this is over at beyondunreal.

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      #32
      Originally posted by BigJim View Post
      I mean, the only difference short of the mesh, is the different firing properties of the weapons - ie; how the devs make them work.
      And that is eminently editable.
      [...]
      What *should* make the difference between keeping & dropping the weapons is style.
      [...]
      IMO both the enforcers and AssRifle make a fitting starting weapon, (as long as it's not as powerful as a pea-shooter), so I'm cool either way - but it's just plain ole' wrong to suggest that the AssRifle could not be made to be just as good.
      I've been trying to explain this a hundred times in Sniper vs. Lightning Gun discussions. Most people just don't seem to get it and keep repeating "OMG we should keep the lightning gun because it does more damage/switches faster/fires faster!". (yes, someone actually said that last one)

      I obviously agree, but there's another problem with the Assault Rifle which lies in it's type of weapon. Being an autofire weapon, it's individual shots cannot and should not be powerful. In damage per second, the assault rifle is barely any different from the enforcer (at least considering all weapons in UT2k4 were weaker); sure, the enforcers did 25 damage per shot, but they fired maybe three times per second or less, meaning it did about 70 damage/second while the AR does 48 per second. What makes the AR so ****ty is it's low accuracy of course, but if it was accurate it'd still feel like a weak POS because of the damage of the individual bullets. (or more precisely: because of the amount of hits it takes to take the enemy down)
      With a slow firing weapon, I think it's much easier to give it a good sense of power even if in actual damage/second or usefulness it's as good or even less good than a faster firing counterpart.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by fuegerstef View Post
        Primary fire IS hitscan, actually.

        http://utforums.epicgames.com/showpo...7&postcount=19

        His other posts saying this is over at beyondunreal.

        That's good to know...I don't need another link primary-like weapon.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Kyllian View Post
          AVRiL does
          Really? I never noticed it.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by !PaRaNoiD! View Post
            Really? I never noticed it.
            That's nice.
            Maybe you could fire up an Instant Action game and confirm it for yourself.

            Comment


              #36
              Well, Daimao, apparently I'm mistaken... Even though that post by willhaven that fuegerstef posted isn't very clear, it's good enough I suppose to go by that.

              The thing that gets me is this... When you watch ANY of the videos you can clearly see the stinger projectiles moving across the screen. Quite slowly actually when compared to instant fire. It almost defys logic... I mean, just LOOK at it.... How could anyone think that is going to be hitscan is beyond me (that is, if we hadn't heard it from the horse himself).

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                #37
                Maybe that's the secondary fire?
                Willhaven did say they didn't try a projectile primary.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Boksha View Post
                  Most people just don't seem to get it and keep repeating "OMG we should keep the lightning gun because it does more damage/switches faster/fires faster!". (yes, someone actually said that last one)
                  Just...

                  Originally posted by Boksha View Post
                  but there's another problem with the Assault Rifle which lies in it's type of weapon
                  ///
                  With a slow firing weapon, I think it's much easier to give it a good sense of power even if in actual damage/second or usefulness it's as good or even less good than a faster firing counterpart.
                  Good points all - that's the kind of logical thinking that should go into the weapon choices, whether or not you should fell like you're firing off Dirty Harry style hand cannon shots or spraying a rambo-rain or anything in between, for example and not just basing it all on how the weaps worked in past-games.

                  Personally though, I'm of the opposite opinion when it comes to taste - I quite like the way the AssRifle feels like a toy - it kinda encourages you to hunt for decent weapons, but at the same time I'm also on board the the legions who want it to be more powerful.
                  I suppose I want to have my cake and shoot it with an AssRifle, I like the way it's visual and sound effects feel puny, and how it takes minigun-like tracking to inflict damage, but in code I do want it's damage values to be higher, so you can at least use it to kill folks.

                  However, that's all just personal opinion - what's important is the way the choices are made, and as long as the devs use common sense (which I'm sure they will ) then I'm happy.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Boksha View Post
                    I obviously agree, but there's another problem with the Assault Rifle which lies in it's type of weapon. Being an autofire weapon, it's individual shots cannot and should not be powerful. In damage per second, the assault rifle is barely any different from the enforcer (at least considering all weapons in UT2k4 were weaker); sure, the enforcers did 25 damage per shot, but they fired maybe three times per second or less, meaning it did about 70 damage/second while the AR does 48 per second. What makes the AR so ****ty is it's low accuracy of course, but if it was accurate it'd still feel like a weak POS because of the damage of the individual bullets. (or more precisely: because of the amount of hits it takes to take the enemy down)
                    With a slow firing weapon, I think it's much easier to give it a good sense of power even if in actual damage/second or usefulness it's as good or even less good than a faster firing counterpart.
                    I honestly think it was only balanced for holding 2 weapons and in my opinion would make a nice secondary weapon to the enforcer if it was only allowed in single mode. If the enforcer does 70 damage/second then 2 would do 140 compared the AR's 96 damage/second which is just over what a single enforcer can do and holding 2 is just as inaccurate. They could have lowered the accuracy when holding 2 vs one to balance it instead really.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      The Enforcer did 25 points of damage per shot, for about twice a second. And double that if you had Dual Enforcers. The Assault Rifle did something like 8 points of damage but several a second (maybe 4) but the accuracy was much worse than the Enforcers. And it didn't help that it sounded really weak.

                      Just to highlight the point about accuracy. Primary fire for Enforcers and Dual Enforcers were pretty tight. The original Unreal automag fired at the center of the pointer, and was 100% accurate. The Enforcers were slightly inaccurate because it used a specific spray pattern that was designed to not be as exploitable as the automag predecessor, until you used the alternate fire. At that point a different spray pattern was used which was noticably wider. Yet for close range it was still accurate enough.

                      With the Assault Rifle you had only a primary fire, with a spray pattern that was worse than the Enforcer primary, yet not as bad as the Enforcer secondary. Then you had the grenade alt fire. The bottom line is that as far as a hitscan weapon it was really weak because it was fairly inaccurate, and it sounded really weak, too. Many of us called it a pellet gun, who's only saving grace was a grenade that was pretty powerful, but even then it had a tiny blast radius and wasn't as easy to place as other projectiles.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Obviously, the questions are now answered: Assualt Rifle is useless for accuracy and damage while the Enforcers can actually hit the target and deal some damage.

                        Why not scrap the idea of the Assualt Rifle and Enforcers and come up with something completely different? A few ideas are:

                        No weapon except the shield gun. (DEFINITELY not a very good idea, lol, yet...) Maybe upgrade the shield gun to make up for it?

                        Some sort of slow-rate-of-fire plasma gun? I'm thinking the plasma of a Manta/Raptor, dealing about 15-25 damage per hit, but maybe 1 bullet per..... second? 1/2 second?

                        =)

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Another issue I thought of with the assfile as well is that it is fairly difficult to get your hands on 2 where it was more common to get 2 enforcers. Its not like heaps easier but I think the spawn protection made it harder to get your hands on them. The grenade mode as well when holding 2 since its a charged mode isnt much quicker then firing a single unless you tap it really quick so you loose all the distance anyways. I guess I just never understood why they went with 2 rifles and now it seems the enforcers are going to be more like a SMP or a SMG which is what the assfile was heading towards anyways.

                          I think smaller single hand weapons which dont require a stock kinda look better for dual anims anyways because you get that alternating between shots which you dont get with 2 assault rifles or smg's.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            maybe im the only one that loves the assult rifles? i often play deathmatches on ut:04 with 40 bots including my self,duel assult rifles along with the other weapons picking of enemy after enemy, i cant be sure how many people i've killed off using them, but i can say this from experience, if a weapon is learnt to be used properly it can achieve many, many kills.

                            I guess my techniek is this:

                            1. never stand still unless you have to,
                            2. ALLWAYS look for more ammo
                            3. hold the trigger down AND GIVE IT HELL!

                            i usually set the kill gauge to 200 which is a good way to kill 30 minutes or less..i think my fastest 200 kills was less then 25 minutes but id have to do it again and get back to you!

                            before i finish this post, does any one else miss the sound of the bouncing shells from the enforcer?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              So when the hell are we gonna discuss weapon lockers?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Jrubzjeknf View Post
                                So when the hell are we gonna discuss weapon lockers?
                                Hey don't go off topic now.

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