Projectile Acc. or Dec. from player speed!

[Jonny]

Tribes Vengeance has a Rocket Launcher equivalent (the Spinfusor, fires explosive discs) that incorporates player velocity. This is not noticeable when moving forward or backward, but very noticeable when moving to the left or the right or when jumping or falling. You'd have to either 1) fire when stationary, 2) fire at the top of your jump or 3) incorporate the projectile's deviation in your aim. If it works for Tribes it should work for UT.

Anyone familiar with the Battlefield series may also have noticed that tank rounds also incorporate the tank's velocity. If you fire while moving the tank to the left, the shell will land to the left. Would be a nice addition for the Goliath. Tank spam is too easy in UT2.5.

I agree that what your saying is realistic ballistics, but for the sake of the game i would only back this happening with the goliath, as u said. I think the rocket launcher should remain as is, because of the problems these ballistics would bring to using the weapon.

Btw what weapons does this work with in ut2004 - minelayer is definite, bio rifle and flak maby? Otherwise im not sure.

[MonsOlympus]

I think the thing people are missing is that yeah sure a grenade will go further if your running like a javelin thrower or a discus thrower. That incorporates the whole arm movement as well, like a baseball pitcher or a cricket bowler. Thats what I mean that these projectiles are fired under their own power, sure some acceleration might be added but when you look at the velocity's and the change in velocity in the unreal tournament games you'll realize why Epic doesnt use this more often.

If you add directly the player movements the projectiles could reach a massive speed not to mention what you could do with a projectile if you hit a jump pad as the airspeed is alot faster then the ground speed to simulate the lack of friction with the ground.

I kinda agree about the stamina thing especially after playing quake 4 online some, it turns into a virtual jump/duck fest and Im sure Epic dont want that. It could be as simple as an audio cue as you dont want to add stamina bars anywhere, just to limit that bunny hop mentality of players. Sure its alittle more intergrated into quake4.

One thing I do find strange is if you jump on a lift moving down you still get the velocity of the base added so it actually minus' where you should be able to jump and let the lift move down underneath you. Quake 4 actually has something wierd where jumping down a ramp gives you a negative velocity like this lift thing in 2k4 but when you jump up a ramp you get a significant boost to Z velocity like a lift jump (toned down ofcoarse). I think it goes to conservation of momentum or something

Yeah well its similar to the 2k3 walldodge I think where downwards or upwards velocity was added to the linear motion away from the wall where you could gain a longer dodge arc. Another thing which I was trying to get at before is the equal and opposite force, not being recoil as such that we see in games but the force the projectile being fired puts against the player when launched, it does have to do with the mass of the projectile as well. Which kinda goes to rocket jumps and the avril only gives velocity in a negative plane to the direction the player is facing instead of also on the Z axis. It does nullify movement though even if the player is moving at a fair speed.

[Boksha]

Btw what weapons does this work with in ut2004 - minelayer is definite, bio rifle and flak maby? Otherwise im not sure.

Only the minelayer, as far as I know. Definitely not any of the DM weapons.
Instead of asking you could just try it yourself, perhaps.

If it works for Tribes it should work for UT.

And if it doesn't work for Tribes, it certainly won't work for UT.
It's just a big annoyance and UT is hitscan biased enough as is.

One thing I do find strange is if you jump on a lift moving down you still get the velocity of the base added so it actually minus' where you should be able to jump and let the lift move down underneath you.

If you think about it for a second you'd realise why this doesn't work.

[Xyx]

the rocket launcher should remain as is, because of the problems these ballistics would bring to using the weapon.

What, that you'd have to, like, actually aim the rockets sometimes?

And if it doesn't work for Tribes, it certainly won't work for UT.

An unfounded statement. There is plenty that works in UT but not in Tribes.

UT is hitscan biased enough as is.

The correct sequence is: see a problem, fix the problem. Not: see a problem, ignore other additions.

[Boksha]

An unfounded statement. There is plenty that works in UT but not in Tribes.

It was no less unfounded than your statement. In fact it was just a reversal of it.

The correct sequence is: see a problem, fix the problem. Not: see a problem, ignore other additions.

The main reason hitscan tends to be overly powerful in the end is because the amount of things you need to keep in mind when using it are so much lower. Adding more of that to non-hitscan weapons will just make that gap bigger. Unless you're willing to completely nerf hitscan weapons (which is a bad idea) implementing something like this won't do the game ANY good.

What's more, modifying projectile weapons to be affected by the player's speed will make UT harder to learn for new players which is the last thing we want.

[Kaiser]

Only the minelayer, as far as I know. Definitely not any of the DM weapons.
Instead of asking you could just try it yourself, perhaps.

.

It works with the assault rifle grenades and it might work with the grenade launcher but i dont use that enough to really know. If ut starts having a more momentum based physics engine that will make it too much like quake imo.

[MonsOlympus]

If you think about it for a second you'd realise why this doesn't work.

Its because of lift jumping, it adds the velocity of the base to the player. Thing is when the lift is moving down then the velocity is negative and gets added to the players velocity. I dunno if that was intended but I didnt find it out until fairly recently when I was travelling down a lift on gael and tried to jump but I went right into a rocket because my jump height was alot lower

[fuegerstef]

The typical weird discussions here:

The people who on the one hand want the game easier for beginners also want momentum for the projectiles which will make the projectile-weapons harder to kill someone with.
As Boksha said this will result in more power for the hitscan weapons unless you nerf them a lot.
What you will get is a UT2003 where the weapons didn't kill but tickeled the opponent a little.

And TBH, I am NOT sure I want a playerbase as small as the third installment of Tribes. If that's what you mean by "it worked for Tribes" I am sure we have different ideas of how we would like the game.


EDIT:

Let's summarize the weird arguments:

- we want recoil
- we want forced inaccuracy while moving
- we want helmets to protect us from getting headshot
- we want slow weapon switching
- we want reloading
- we want player momentum transferred to the projectiles
- we want that it is easier to kill with the weps again
- we want the original UT feel back

TWO points do NOT fit the others. Can you find out which ones? ...if yes, welcome to the world of logical thinking. Stay in this world, it is a good one, trust me.

[Boksha]

It works with the assault rifle grenades

'doh! Completely forgot about that one.
For the AR grenades only the speed is affected though (i.e. only your velocity parallel to the firing direction is considered). If you dodge to the left and fire the grenade won't get any velocity to the left.

[Pendrokar]

- we want recoil
- we want forced inaccuracy while moving
- we want helmets to protect us from getting headshot
- we want slow weapon switching
- we want reloading
- we want player momentum transferred to the projectiles
- we want that it is easier to kill with the weps again
- we want the original UT feel back

Easy - - we want recoil; - we want reloading

'doh! Completely forgot about that one.

Didn't you read the first post?

[Jonny]

Actually i dont want all those things. I would like only the canister gun to really be affected in this way, so you can throw grenades and mines further. I think all the other weapons should stay as they are, especially the Rocket Launcher. Other than that i'm going to trust Epic on the weapons (because they look awesome so far) and i know they know what they're doing.

[Modulus]

- we want slow weapon switching
- we want that it is easier to kill with the weps again
- we want the original UT feel back

[Xyx]

It was no less unfounded than your statement. In fact it was just a reversal of it.

So it is your intention to 1) make unfounded statements, apparently in some ill-conceived attempt to ridicule my statements and 2) implicitly deny a certain correlation between the Unreal and Tribes franchises?

Just checking.

Unless you're willing to completely nerf hitscan weapons (which is a bad idea)

Since you're so good at reversing statements, I'm sure you can follow this logic: instead of nerfing hitscan, you can boost projectile power.

modifying projectile weapons to be affected by the player's speed will make UT harder to learn for new players which is the last thing we want.

Projectile inaccuracy is easily corrected by increasing the splash damage radius. This adds a very intuitive extra dimension to gameplay. Spam is good.

What is hard for new players is if some projectiles are and some aren't affected by player velocity. Which is currently the case. After using the Rocket Launcher or Flak Cannon for three seconds, no new player will ever guess that spidermines can be launched twice as far by dodging (assuming Epic properly explained what dodging is...).

- we want that it is easier to kill with the weps again

Killing is not "easy" or "hard" per se. Your opponents are what make it easy or hard since they generally try to do unto you before you do unto them.

[Jrubzjeknf]

Easy - - we want recoil; - we want reloading

Hell F***ing No!

[rsgs92]

You crazy. forced recoil FUKING SUCKS. What is the fuking point of dodging and strafing and shooting you priks. You crazy pieces of ***** have no idea of unreal tournament or something. You baffle me. And reloading?? Go *** yourself. Reloadin in an unrealtournament is crazy. You wanna make it CS. If cs had no reloading and no forced recoil it would be a fast paced game not forgtting instant spawn too and more health. And player momentum to projectile gets your rocket moving sideways while dodging ya ********?? Only on the mine layer.