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UT3 SP/CoOp Campaign + UEd 4.0 = custom story-driven adventures and smart creatures?

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    UT3 SP/CoOp Campaign + UEd 4.0 = custom story-driven adventures and smart creatures?

    I've been asking this on various threads related to the release of UT3, it's SP/CoOp campaign and the new editor. It's time these questions had a thread of their own.

    Although one can make the broad assumption: if you have the editor with Epic's famously open set of tools and a stock story-driven campaign that mappers should be able to create their own SP/CoOp campaign adventures fairly easily, that hasn't been confirmed or denied "officially". (And by "officially", I mean by Steven Polge or someone who can speak to the subject with authority.)

    Along the same lines, a system of complex AI, similar to that used in original Unreal and UT, should be available to facilitate the stock adventure. One might assume that, again mappers will also have access to these tools. But again, this has not been confirmed nor denied.

    I humbly ask for an official response to these important questions:
    Originally posted by SuperApe (on the "New Trailer shows the Krall" thread)
    Thanks for the heads up, Steven. It's great to see a proper SP/CoOp campaign coming in UT3.

    I have a couple questions that call for an "official" answer:

    Does this mean mappers will be able to easily create their own custom story-driven adventures with a stock gametype?
    And more importantly, does this mean we'll be seeing the kind of advanced creature AI (and mapper tools) that existed in Unreal/UT99? (similar to ScriptedPawn, AlarmPoint, AmbushPoint, PatrolPoint, etc.)

    (If so, I guess that I won't need to re-work Old Skool Monsta Toolz for UT3. )

    Thanks again for all your hard work.

    UPDATE:

    Until we get an "official" response, the videos shown here, along with the trailers, articles and precedence Epic has set in the past, can lead us to believe that the answer to both these questions is, "Yes". I'm pretty confident that aside from being a completely different workflow and system for AI (from original Unreal/UT99), and perhaps the absence of minor attributes such as AttitudeToPlayer and Intelligence, creating the same kinds of complex behaviors should not be too difficult for mappers.

    WooHoo! This lets us concentrate on making fun story-driven adventures!

    #2
    Confirmed... All systems GO, SuperApe.

    Make Unreal3 please.

    Comment


      #3
      Of course, the AI won't be like that used in Unreal, since there won't, I suppose be any monster-class AI to be manipulated. Single-player adventures would, if an Unreal flavor was wanted, need to have a heavy coding element to control monster AI. I'd assume that all AI included with the game would be relevant to getting the AI entities to play the games correctly. After that, I'd imagine players would be on their own, script-wise.

      I foresee some intrepid coder writing an entire framework for UT3 AI, so allow mappers to make monster-based AI adventures. Coupled with someone making meshes and skins, rigging them, and doing animations, this is a lot of work, but I can see someone doing it, since the community would likely embrace the results.

      And modelers, skinners and animators can already get to work, building assets, which is nice. No need to wait to start that 200-hours-per-creature modeling project!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Modulus View Post
        Confirmed... All systems GO, SuperApe.
        Forgive me, I'm just not familiar. Are you giving an official response from Epic? If so, can you elaborate a little more than that? I'm asking pretty technical questions and, "yup", isn't quite satisfying.

        I realize the folks at Epic are very busy now, I'm just hoping for an official response.

        Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
        Of course, the AI won't be like that used in Unreal, since there won't, I suppose be any monster-class AI to be manipulated.
        From what I've seen (Krall) and from what I can infere (a SP/CoOp story-driven adventure), there most certainly is a Monster class to be controlled, and probably with some amount of sophistication. If Epic follows what they've done in the past (ScriptedPawn coupled with AlarmPoint, PatrolPoint, AmbushPoint, etc.), there should be a set of tools in the editor that level designers are using to create the campaign maps. I just need confirmation that these tools will be available as stock elements in the new editor (along with the gametype) and any details on difference between old UT AI tools and these would be a bonus.

        Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
        I foresee some intrepid coder writing an entire framework for UT3 AI, so allow mappers to make monster-based AI adventures...I can see someone doing it, since the community would likely embrace the results.
        Kind of like what I did with OSMT in UT2k4? (see my post above)

        Comment


          #5
          i was watching an Unreal speedrun http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=45456

          thought it was pretty cool, would defnitely like to see something like that

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by zeitgeber View Post
            i was watching an Unreal speedrun ... thought it was pretty cool, would defnitely like to see something like that
            That's a 50 minute video of someone running through original Unreal. I really don't see how that could be On Topic. This thread is talking about the mapping tools available in UT3. (Please read the top post ... carefully)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by SuperApe View Post
              From what I've seen (Krall) and from what I can infere (a SP/CoOp story-driven adventure), there most certainly is a Monster class to be controlled, and probably with some amount of sophistication.
              I was thinking that was just a snippet of machinama, not in-game monsters.

              Originally posted by SuperApe View Post
              Kind of like what I did with OSMT in UT2k4?
              Actually, exactly like what you did in 2k4! I missed your last line in the initial post, identifying you as the OSMT creator. Great stuff! I was going to mention you by name, but was afraid my browser would time out if I hunted around my folders to look up your name and give you credit for the great work in 2k4.

              I still think you'll have to start all over in UT3. I'm thinking the Krall are just eye-candy, without a basis in code. I may be wrong (which would be sweet)!

              Comment


                #8
                Perhaps there are monster AI krall and bot AI krall.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Kronos View Post
                  Perhaps there are monster AI krall and bot AI krall.
                  Maybe you're right. But, I should make this clear:

                  While Bots are sophisticated AI agents, they are designed to do one thing, act as human players. IOW, they are not well-suited for use as NPCs in story-driven adventures. While it wouldn't suprise me at all to see Krall (Skaarj, etc) models/animations available for use in a player profile (players playing as a Krall), the kind of AI used in Singleplayer and CoOperative adventures must have the flexibility to do more than "run around and kill your opponent". They have to be able to help tell the story of the campaign, as a member of the cast of characters. To do this, I can't see Bot AI performing that role well except in a very simplistic story like: "you're under attack! here they come!" Based on what I saw in Gears, I really doubt Epic cheesed out on UT3's campaign story in that way. I'm betting there is some sosphicated AI that allows Patroling, Ambushing, Guarding, etc. along with Scripted behavior. (AIScript)

                  I hope to hear a little about the differences in UT3 creature AI from original Unreal, if I get a response from someone at Epic soon. [hope]

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Suggestions on ways to get this thread noticed by the very busy staff at Epic (if not Steven Polge, someone else with authority) for official answers to the above questions are also welcome. Less serious posts need not bother.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Dare I bump?

                      I've been trying to get these two questions answered for a while, I'd hate for them to get lost in the shuffle. I'm sure the folks at Epic would like to answer if given the time to do so. So, I'm hoping they get enough time to let us know, giving an official response.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If this isn't in the game out of the box, I nominate SuperApe to put it in. We're all counting on you , Ape!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thank you for your kind words and support.

                          As luck would have it, I've just been hired as a Game Designer (yay!), and that means I will have very little time for outside projects or any contract work for the foreseeable future. Who knows how long it will be before UT3 is out, how different the class structure for OSMT would be in UT3, or if these tools will be available (Epic-made) as stock objects. We'll just have to wait and see.

                          In the meantime, I'm sure many forum readers would love Official answers to the questions raised on the top post of this thread. When you have a minute Epic folks, we can wait.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Here's hoping we can get official answers this week.

                            I've been seeing plenty of interviews from Epic folks answering questions from fans. But, very little from the PC fan base. (Xbox, PS3-related, etc) These questions are strickly PC-releated, user mapping-related.

                            Give the PC base some love, Epic.
                            (And thanks for your hard work.)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              As an interested UT3 SP developer, some info on this would be really good for me. If worse comes to the worse I'm quite willing to create the whole system myself, from scratch.

                              Comment

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