Vehicles in deathmatch now too? This is getting out of hand.

[sidefx]

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

As FliccC also already told you, dm/ctf have been the standard gametypes in UT and UT-style games since the beginnings of the genre, therefore making them traditional by their very definition, it is not "my opinion" this is a fact. If you completely change them by adding vehicles or whatever else, you are effectively altering those gametypes to the point where they are not the same gametype anymore. And no, vehicles do not belong in traditional game types such as dm/ctf because they wouldnt be traditional anymore now would they? Why are you getting so defensive, I've stated over and over again that vehicles are FINE... in their own game types, im not trying to get rid of vehicles. However, if you would stop being so self-centered you would realize there are alot of people out there who dont like vehicles, and have no interest in playing with vehicles. These people are deserving of their traditional gametypes that epic has always delivered in the past, and has indirectly promised for UT3 as well. Why are you so insistant that every single game type should have vehicles? Because you like them? Not everyone shares your view k?

[TWD]

Moving on doesn't mean trashing everything good from the past. Right now I have a choice. I can play a vehicle gametype, or a non vehicle gametype. If they are combined, I no longer have that choice. All the gametypes will have vehicles in them, in one situation or another. I don't have a non vehicle gametype anymore.

The post originator has an extremely good point. There are thousands of people out there waiting. When the UT2k3 demo came out there was almost 8,000 people at any given time playing the game. Why? People remember UT'99 and Quake3. There is a huge audience out there that is willing to play things like non-vehicle CTF. Within a week that 8,000 dropped to more like 4,000, and it continued to drop. UT2k3 didn't deliver what everyone thought it would. There just hasn't been a very well done game like this since UT'99. There are some great things that I know I want to see return, and everyone is fighting against it. It's like you all want to take the worst things from UT2004, and the worst things from UT99, and smash it together.

[FliccC]

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

DM and CTF are the typical Gametypes for UT. It is what UT1 was all about. And also in UT2k3 was built around this gametypes. Thats whats making them traditional.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with a new playerbase for vehicle-based gametypes as long as they get the normal game types right I don't complain. But please don't even 'try' to compare vehicle UT with non-vehicle UT. It plays completely different, it is a completely different game. The only way to keep this two games seperated (and therefore guarantee that every game for itself is very good) is to split vehicle- and non-vehicle gametypes. Deathmatch is not meant to have a vehicle in it and, I think I can say that pretty sure, a single vehicle in such a gametype would seriously screw up the whole.

In my opinion there is no way around splitting gametypes. It's got nothing do with beeing conservative or not willing to change. They will improve the Vehicle Gametypes and they will do the same for the Deathmatch Gametypes, and people will adapt to the new things in both parts of the game. But if they ever mix it they will screw the gameplay.

[Krawler]

Personally, I don't like the idea of vehicles in DM. It would seem to me that jumping into a bender would be a bit like having a big sign with "shoot me" written on it. But hey, if people want to play that then more power to them.

the point is... the power shouldnt be given to them. period.

[EntropicLqd]

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking that Epic are trying to open the ability to use game assets right up to mappers.

That is, if you want to build a DM map that has a vehicle or two in it, feel free. It is up to you, the mapper, to ensure that it is balanced enough with open and closed areas that the vehicle doesn't totally dominate. But wait, maybe you want to make a DM map without any vehicles; that would be cool to.

We already know that you can build CTF maps both with and without vehicles. Again, the responsibility resides with the mappre to ensure balance and appropriate gameplay.

And I'm prepare to bet that the ONS/WAR maps can be built without side objectives for that "classic" feel. Once again, the way the map plays and is balanced is entirely down to the mapper and the direction he wants to take with the game play.

Personally, I don't like the idea of vehicles in DM. It would seem to me that jumping into a bender would be a bit like having a big sign with "shoot me" written on it. But hey, if people want to play that then more power to them.

[Crimson Engage]

lol... ok so is this is what YOU think UT is, and what YOU think quake is. Thank you for your opinion, but please do not present it as fact. Like it or not, the unreal franchise has a legacy to live up to, and a dedicated playerbase to please. I appreciate the fact that you like vehicles and vehicle modes, but some of us dont. Please dont try to force your opinion upon the rest of us by saying we should go play other games if we dont want vehicles, that is simply ignorant. And I never once said I wanted to get rid of vehicles, and if you had been paying attention you would have realized that I actually said I welcome the vehicle game types. The point im making is just that they have no business being in the traditional non-vehicular game types. Try to understand that there are alot of people out there who have no interest in this game turning into a vehicular-based affair.

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

[MonsOlympus]

The problem is far deeper than a mere selection of x or y map. You cannot simply have servers flip-flopping between vehicular or non-vehicular maps, it is a nightmare for the development of the community and especially for the development of competitive aspects of that gametype. I suppose a casual player would not realize the significance in something like this, but as an exaggerated example, could you imagine if every single map had different vehicles, different game mechanics, different this, different that... there'd be no standard to build a community off of, and no base game to focus competitive play on. There needs to be consistancy in a gametype. That is why vehicles should be limited to their own game types imo, instead of invading and changing the gametypes that have been established.

Well I can honestly say, suck it up and stop complaining. Ive had to put up with UTcomp this, TAM that, Hitsounds thing, Brightskins that for ages, maybe Epic just want to give alittle more to the casual gamers this time around. I honestly think casual gamers should get the same respect as competitive gamers honestly, just because we dont play to win all the time or dont have the time to dedicate to it, that it doesnt make us any less of a gamer!

I mean if you cant be competitive on every level in any situation, you dont deserve to be a competitive gamer or call yourself such. To me this whole gametyper situation has got to stop, specializing in one gametype is just another example of over specialization in this day and age.

Lets have alittle fun for a change and just let UT3 be a game first and a competitive platform second.

Sure there's ways around it. Yeah I could leave the server. Yeah I could stick to playing on the same stupid 2 servers all the time. I could just not play at all.

I think the point you are all missing is WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO? It's another layer of inconvinience that is completely unnessicary.

If they were seperate gametypes, I wouldn't have to find a new server every other map.
If they were seperate gametypes, I could join just about any pub server I want and be happy with it.
If they were spereate gametypes, you won't have to listen to me whine every time the map vote box comes up.
If they were seperate gametypes, you wouldn't have to listen to me complain about it on the forums every chance I get.
If they were seperate gametypes, you would probably never hear or care about the issue ever again.

I mean seriously nobody was ever ****** off about CTF and vCTF being seperate in 2k4. Obviously people will be mad when they're combined in UT3. If they're combined you'll never hear the end of it, if they're seperated everyone will continue living their lives like normal again.

So tell me again why is it such a good idea to combine them?

Some good points indeed but as a casual gamer I like what Epic are doing, Ive been playing DM since there was a gametype called that. We need to move forward and accept alittle change and casual gamers are the most open, what I am sick of is playing Comp rules on every Public Server on the planet. Go find your own servers to play on seriously, Im sick of it I just want alittle fun and if that means mixing vehicles into the equation so be it!


Am I the only one who thinks this might not be just infantry and vehicles but it could be DM entirely in vehicles. Say DM-Whisper, if that is a map for aerial DM then your not going to want to get out of your vehicle and fall to your doom. It'll give people with different skills a chance to show off for a change and not just get left in the dust by infantry time and time again, I dont see why these people are any less important then the people who prefer infantry based combat like myself.

I think people are threatened by this because they think it'll be all about vehicles, honestly I can see more thought towards inovating FPS and vehicles gameplay rather then a wanna be halo move by Epic. Look at Gears vs Halo 3 or even UT3 vs Halo3 for a second and tell me Epic can release the same old gametypes up against a new comer like Halo. Sure Epic have done well in the past with infantry gamemodes but after UT2k3 vs UT2k4 it doesnt leave much to chance as to what sells a game. Its innovation that sells not vehicles, so if Epic can provide both classic modes and innovation under the same gametype who am I to argue. BRING IT ON EPIC!

[WarMachine]

Before you freak out, didn't one of the developers say in an interview that deathmatches, mutliplayer matches, etc. are going to be customizeable? That makes me think that you can turn vehicles, or possibly even certain vehicles off.

[-VT-]

you know, this whole bit of confusion could be cleared up if one of Epic's employees responded *coughwartouristcough*

[-echohawk-]

To anyone that thinks vehikalz are a good thing in DeathMatch and that people opposing this change should play something else,
"prayne de crabug ahm rinedere be-yogt iglo kes gron".

That is all, have a nice day.

[ne_skaju]

I'm sure, even if vehicles are included in DM maps, that there will be more than a couple server admins who feel the same as you, and will take the vDM maps out of rotation. Not the optimal situation, of course, but it's better than the alternative.

Who said there will be controllable vehicles in this map. Look at DM-UCMP3-Attitude, for example: you see aircrafts flying through the map, its just for ambience.

[sidefx]

Morris is gushing.... he's listing things off. It's not like people in his job don't think about the best way to answer questions in an interview is. He is systematically giving out info that is interesting to all the potential buyers.



When he says, "I really love DM Whisper, which is a map that takes place on the Necris homeworld, and the Necris environment has a very Turkish-meets-Gothic-cathedral look, and it’s just an incredibly gorgeous map" he is answering the question asked. He's mentioning DM, something that doesn't get a lot of press because it's old (and it's old because it's good), and also mentioning part of the story and graphincs. He is talking about the cool details of the Necris homeworld, Whisper, on which, one of their maps is set.

When he goes on to say that "one of the screenshots in the press kit is an aerial dogfight that takes place on Whisper, so you can see that." He's talking about a screenshot in the press kit that also takes place on Whisper. If he was talking about DM Whisper, his answer to the question about his favourite map, he would have said so.

There is nothing in what was said to suggest that the screenshot is of DM Whisper, and nothing in the screenshot to indicate it is anything other than a vehicular gametype.

It's not ambiguous; you're being paranoid.

YMMV

Well the fact that he had mentioned DM Whisper in the previous sentence would imply that he could be referring to that map when he says Whisper in the subsequent sentence. Although apparently there is an entire area/planet called whisper? I'm not an unreal lore fan, so I have no idea about all that ****, but I see what you're saying if this is the case. However, it could nonetheless still be interpreted either way, and a little clarification never hurt anyone

[sidefx]

*sigh*
Unreal is about innovation above all, Quake is about the same thing over and over, which is what your stance appears to be coming accross as favoring. (Going against the only new elements in the game...) Unreal hasn't had any real major innovations in a while. The movement in 2k3/4 was the closest they've come, since most of the Axon vehicles are the standard sort (Tank, jet, multi-person truck, hovercraft...) and Epic's getting rid of that.
UC 2 added the cool melee stuff, and got mixed reviews because people didn't want anything different, so they got rid of that. Now they're doing fun stuff with their new vehicles, and changing up the ancient gametypes, and guess what, people are afraid of it... So, if no-one wants the game to chnage, go play Quake where people are even more afraid of new stuff than they are here.
I don't understand where the animosity comes from, why people can't decide to have fun and welcome new stuff. Anywya,

lol... ok so is this is what YOU think UT is, and what YOU think quake is. Thank you for your opinion, but please do not present it as fact. Like it or not, the unreal franchise has a legacy to live up to, and a dedicated playerbase to please. I appreciate the fact that you like vehicles and vehicle modes, but some of us dont. Please dont try to force your opinion upon the rest of us by saying we should go play other games if we dont want vehicles, that is simply ignorant. And I never once said I wanted to get rid of vehicles, and if you had been paying attention you would have realized that I actually said I welcome the vehicle game types. The point im making is just that they have no business being in the traditional non-vehicular game types. Try to understand that there are alot of people out there who have no interest in this game turning into a vehicular-based affair.

[TWD]

Exactly. Leaving things up to the community is one of the worst things you can do. If you combine CTF, and vCTF, the community will seperate them in the worst way possible.

Disagreements over UTcomp, the only half decent servers being demo, general pub stupidity. The list goes on and on.

[Magwa]

You can be sure of onw thing: If there's not map without vehicule, someone will creat a mode to play without vehicul so don't worry. I'm prety sure we will dm/tam/ctf without vehicule in ladders like every UT

That too is a problem look at the fiasco in 2k4 some liked UTcomp others did not. Some want the trans in Insta CTF some did not when you mod it ,it then becomes a non Epic feature just what this game does not need. For ladders we need the same set of rules ,not xyz rules on this ladder and ujo,rules for that one...if Epic would seperate the games then it is taken care of . and this just makes my post about them making two seperate games even better by doing so you can choose a vehicle based game or a weapons and foot game .