Vehicles in deathmatch now too? This is getting out of hand.

[WarMachine]

Before you freak out, didn't one of the developers say in an interview that deathmatches, mutliplayer matches, etc. are going to be customizeable? That makes me think that you can turn vehicles, or possibly even certain vehicles off.

[MonsOlympus]

The problem is far deeper than a mere selection of x or y map. You cannot simply have servers flip-flopping between vehicular or non-vehicular maps, it is a nightmare for the development of the community and especially for the development of competitive aspects of that gametype. I suppose a casual player would not realize the significance in something like this, but as an exaggerated example, could you imagine if every single map had different vehicles, different game mechanics, different this, different that... there'd be no standard to build a community off of, and no base game to focus competitive play on. There needs to be consistancy in a gametype. That is why vehicles should be limited to their own game types imo, instead of invading and changing the gametypes that have been established.

Well I can honestly say, suck it up and stop complaining. Ive had to put up with UTcomp this, TAM that, Hitsounds thing, Brightskins that for ages, maybe Epic just want to give alittle more to the casual gamers this time around. I honestly think casual gamers should get the same respect as competitive gamers honestly, just because we dont play to win all the time or dont have the time to dedicate to it, that it doesnt make us any less of a gamer!

I mean if you cant be competitive on every level in any situation, you dont deserve to be a competitive gamer or call yourself such. To me this whole gametyper situation has got to stop, specializing in one gametype is just another example of over specialization in this day and age.

Lets have alittle fun for a change and just let UT3 be a game first and a competitive platform second.

Sure there's ways around it. Yeah I could leave the server. Yeah I could stick to playing on the same stupid 2 servers all the time. I could just not play at all.

I think the point you are all missing is WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO? It's another layer of inconvinience that is completely unnessicary.

If they were seperate gametypes, I wouldn't have to find a new server every other map.
If they were seperate gametypes, I could join just about any pub server I want and be happy with it.
If they were spereate gametypes, you won't have to listen to me whine every time the map vote box comes up.
If they were seperate gametypes, you wouldn't have to listen to me complain about it on the forums every chance I get.
If they were seperate gametypes, you would probably never hear or care about the issue ever again.

I mean seriously nobody was ever ****** off about CTF and vCTF being seperate in 2k4. Obviously people will be mad when they're combined in UT3. If they're combined you'll never hear the end of it, if they're seperated everyone will continue living their lives like normal again.

So tell me again why is it such a good idea to combine them?

Some good points indeed but as a casual gamer I like what Epic are doing, Ive been playing DM since there was a gametype called that. We need to move forward and accept alittle change and casual gamers are the most open, what I am sick of is playing Comp rules on every Public Server on the planet. Go find your own servers to play on seriously, Im sick of it I just want alittle fun and if that means mixing vehicles into the equation so be it!


Am I the only one who thinks this might not be just infantry and vehicles but it could be DM entirely in vehicles. Say DM-Whisper, if that is a map for aerial DM then your not going to want to get out of your vehicle and fall to your doom. It'll give people with different skills a chance to show off for a change and not just get left in the dust by infantry time and time again, I dont see why these people are any less important then the people who prefer infantry based combat like myself.

I think people are threatened by this because they think it'll be all about vehicles, honestly I can see more thought towards inovating FPS and vehicles gameplay rather then a wanna be halo move by Epic. Look at Gears vs Halo 3 or even UT3 vs Halo3 for a second and tell me Epic can release the same old gametypes up against a new comer like Halo. Sure Epic have done well in the past with infantry gamemodes but after UT2k3 vs UT2k4 it doesnt leave much to chance as to what sells a game. Its innovation that sells not vehicles, so if Epic can provide both classic modes and innovation under the same gametype who am I to argue. BRING IT ON EPIC!

[Crimson Engage]

lol... ok so is this is what YOU think UT is, and what YOU think quake is. Thank you for your opinion, but please do not present it as fact. Like it or not, the unreal franchise has a legacy to live up to, and a dedicated playerbase to please. I appreciate the fact that you like vehicles and vehicle modes, but some of us dont. Please dont try to force your opinion upon the rest of us by saying we should go play other games if we dont want vehicles, that is simply ignorant. And I never once said I wanted to get rid of vehicles, and if you had been paying attention you would have realized that I actually said I welcome the vehicle game types. The point im making is just that they have no business being in the traditional non-vehicular game types. Try to understand that there are alot of people out there who have no interest in this game turning into a vehicular-based affair.

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

[EntropicLqd]

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm thinking that Epic are trying to open the ability to use game assets right up to mappers.

That is, if you want to build a DM map that has a vehicle or two in it, feel free. It is up to you, the mapper, to ensure that it is balanced enough with open and closed areas that the vehicle doesn't totally dominate. But wait, maybe you want to make a DM map without any vehicles; that would be cool to.

We already know that you can build CTF maps both with and without vehicles. Again, the responsibility resides with the mappre to ensure balance and appropriate gameplay.

And I'm prepare to bet that the ONS/WAR maps can be built without side objectives for that "classic" feel. Once again, the way the map plays and is balanced is entirely down to the mapper and the direction he wants to take with the game play.

Personally, I don't like the idea of vehicles in DM. It would seem to me that jumping into a bender would be a bit like having a big sign with "shoot me" written on it. But hey, if people want to play that then more power to them.

[Krawler]

Personally, I don't like the idea of vehicles in DM. It would seem to me that jumping into a bender would be a bit like having a big sign with "shoot me" written on it. But hey, if people want to play that then more power to them.

the point is... the power shouldnt be given to them. period.

[FliccC]

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

DM and CTF are the typical Gametypes for UT. It is what UT1 was all about. And also in UT2k3 was built around this gametypes. Thats whats making them traditional.

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with a new playerbase for vehicle-based gametypes as long as they get the normal game types right I don't complain. But please don't even 'try' to compare vehicle UT with non-vehicle UT. It plays completely different, it is a completely different game. The only way to keep this two games seperated (and therefore guarantee that every game for itself is very good) is to split vehicle- and non-vehicle gametypes. Deathmatch is not meant to have a vehicle in it and, I think I can say that pretty sure, a single vehicle in such a gametype would seriously screw up the whole.

In my opinion there is no way around splitting gametypes. It's got nothing do with beeing conservative or not willing to change. They will improve the Vehicle Gametypes and they will do the same for the Deathmatch Gametypes, and people will adapt to the new things in both parts of the game. But if they ever mix it they will screw the gameplay.

[TWD]

Moving on doesn't mean trashing everything good from the past. Right now I have a choice. I can play a vehicle gametype, or a non vehicle gametype. If they are combined, I no longer have that choice. All the gametypes will have vehicles in them, in one situation or another. I don't have a non vehicle gametype anymore.

The post originator has an extremely good point. There are thousands of people out there waiting. When the UT2k3 demo came out there was almost 8,000 people at any given time playing the game. Why? People remember UT'99 and Quake3. There is a huge audience out there that is willing to play things like non-vehicle CTF. Within a week that 8,000 dropped to more like 4,000, and it continued to drop. UT2k3 didn't deliver what everyone thought it would. There just hasn't been a very well done game like this since UT'99. There are some great things that I know I want to see return, and everyone is fighting against it. It's like you all want to take the worst things from UT2004, and the worst things from UT99, and smash it together.

[sidefx]

What Makes DM/CTF Traditional? The fact that, that is probably the only game type you have ever played? Those type of people(s) remind me of the Counter-Strike noobs, who are afraid of change.

By you saying vehicles do not belong in "Traditional" game types such as DM/CTF is your opinion, making you a hypocrite. Your post is void. If DM/CTF (or in this case "Traditional") game types come with Vehicles standard, like i said, find/make a mutator that removes the vehicles. And/or remove them with UnrealED. Don't fret, DM/CTF most likely will not include vehicular combat by default. It's called Options. They make the world go round. The more Option people(s) get, the happier we are.

I believe Shadow Dancer Verbally pwnt you.

As FliccC also already told you, dm/ctf have been the standard gametypes in UT and UT-style games since the beginnings of the genre, therefore making them traditional by their very definition, it is not "my opinion" this is a fact. If you completely change them by adding vehicles or whatever else, you are effectively altering those gametypes to the point where they are not the same gametype anymore. And no, vehicles do not belong in traditional game types such as dm/ctf because they wouldnt be traditional anymore now would they? Why are you getting so defensive, I've stated over and over again that vehicles are FINE... in their own game types, im not trying to get rid of vehicles. However, if you would stop being so self-centered you would realize there are alot of people out there who dont like vehicles, and have no interest in playing with vehicles. These people are deserving of their traditional gametypes that epic has always delivered in the past, and has indirectly promised for UT3 as well. Why are you so insistant that every single game type should have vehicles? Because you like them? Not everyone shares your view k?