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Vehicles in deathmatch now too? This is getting out of hand.

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    #16
    Please keep CTF and DM free of vehicles.

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      #17
      Originally posted by sidefx View Post
      The problem is far deeper than a mere selection of x or y map.
      No, not really.

      You cannot simply have servers flip-flopping between vehicular or non-vehicular maps, it is a nightmare for the development of the community and especially for the development of competitive aspects of that gametype.
      Why are vehicles non-competitive?
      I suppose a casual player would not realize the significance in something like this, but as an exaggerated example, could you imagine if every single map had different vehicles, different game mechanics, different this, different that... there'd be no standard to build a community off of, and no base game to focus competitive play on.
      *gasp* you have to learn new things.

      There needs to be consistancy in a gametype. That is why vehicles should be limited to their own game types imo, instead of invading and changing the gametypes that have been established.
      There is a consistency. DM is killing the opposite player/team for points. CTF is stealing the opposite team's flag for points. Warfare is blowing up the opposite team's core. Vehicles do not change the consistency at all. They just add another way to frag people. A skillful player can dominate a map even with vehicles present just as a skillful pilot can dominate a map in his vehicle. In UT2004, there were custom ONS maps with out vehicles. Guess what, it still played like ONS.

      The point I'm trying to make is don't knock it until you try it. Epic wouldn't ship a game with things that they thought weren't fun. There's a billion threads about vehicle bashing, and every single one is just someone complaining how they don't like vehicles. Well, how do you know you don't like them, have you played it yet? Don't base anything in UT3 from your experiences in UT2004. It's a completely new game, as Epic has said many times over.

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        #18
        You can be sure of onw thing: If there's not map without vehicule, someone will creat a mode to play without vehicul so don't worry. I'm prety sure we will dm/tam/ctf without vehicule in ladders like every UT

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          #19
          They'll probably just have an option to turn vehicles off in any map if people keep complaining about it. Kind of how you can turn the translocator on and off in UT2004.

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            #20
            Originally posted by sidefx View Post
            The problem is far deeper than a mere selection of x or y map. You cannot simply have servers flip-flopping between vehicular or non-vehicular maps, it is a nightmare for the development of the community and especially for the development of competitive aspects of that gametype. I suppose a casual player would not realize the significance in something like this, but as an exaggerated example, could you imagine if every single map had different vehicles, different game mechanics, different this, different that... there'd be no standard to build a community off of, and no base game to focus competitive play on. There needs to be consistancy in a gametype. That is why vehicles should be limited to their own game types imo, instead of invading and changing the gametypes that have been established.
            Or, people would be adaptable and learn it as a whole. People are capable of understanding varied gameplay.
            Regardless, there will be varied servers, there will be non-vehicle servers, adn there will be vehicle-onyl servers, so who cares?

            Having played a pretty fair amount of Halo2 VDM, I can tell you that someone skilled in a vehicle can dominate the map with it. Someone skilled in anti-vehicle skills can keep them from being used altogether, and has no problem putting down the toughest of vehakalz. It´s just a matter of expanding your skill base.

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              #21
              Halo 2 and UT3 are two different games.

              Incidentally, UT3 is supposed to be balanced.

              With vehicles more resistant to small-arms fire in UT3, it seems that deathmatch may place players on foot at a severe disadvantage.

              However, the concept still sounds quite fun and I'd like to see it implemented.

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                #22
                Sure there's ways around it. Yeah I could leave the server. Yeah I could stick to playing on the same stupid 2 servers all the time. I could just not play at all.

                I think the point you are all missing is WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO? It's another layer of inconvinience that is completely unnessicary.

                If they were seperate gametypes, I wouldn't have to find a new server every other map.
                If they were seperate gametypes, I could join just about any pub server I want and be happy with it.
                If they were spereate gametypes, you won't have to listen to me whine every time the map vote box comes up.
                If they were seperate gametypes, you wouldn't have to listen to me complain about it on the forums every chance I get.
                If they were seperate gametypes, you would probably never hear or care about the issue ever again.

                I mean seriously nobody was ever ****** off about CTF and vCTF being seperate in 2k4. Obviously people will be mad when they're combined in UT3. If they're combined you'll never hear the end of it, if they're seperated everyone will continue living their lives like normal again.

                So tell me again why is it such a good idea to combine them?

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                  #23
                  I think you have the wrong thread there TWD.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by sidefx View Post
                    Me, and the vast majority of competitive unreal players are not seriously interested in the newest and fanciest vehicles, and are certainly not interested in them invading the bread-and-butter gametypes that UT was built on.

                    There is nothing wrong with having vehicular game modes, and i know alot of people enjoy that style of play. Heck, I dont mind it myself every now and then, a little chaotic vehicular mayhem can really be fun sometimes! But when vehicles begin appearing in EVERY game mode, it is an extremely fast way to alienate the dedicated hardcore community that enjoys the more skill-based aspect of the game, the hand-held weapons and the intricate player movement. We aren't interested in having vehicles completely undermine that competitive mindset of the CTF and DM gametypes that many of us have enjoyed since the days of unreal 1. Why is it such a big deal to keep the game types SEPERATE? I thought you guys said you wanted UT3 to "own the competitive fps genre" or something along those lines? Well, there wont be a competitive game left if vehicles kept getting tossed into every game type like ranch dressing on a salad.

                    This is the quote I am referring to where it suggests, much to the dismay of myself and many others, that not only is there going to be vehicles in CTF, but now DM as well...

                    Quote from an interview with Jeff Morris:


                    I'm really hoping it was just a typo where he put DM in the map name, but after the news of vCTF I honestly wouldnt be surprised to see this kind of abomination appear either. Say it aint so! If this is true, you are needlessly alienating your most dedicated player base by carelessly implementing vehicles in traditional gametypes where they have no business being.
                    Or you could always go back and play Quake if you want your "Bread and butter"

                    I love vehicular combat, and for them to bring it to DM, should make the Tournament a lot more interesting.

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                      #25
                      Even in the very, very worst of cases, who can't open the Ed, delete the vehicle factories and then save under "DM-xxx-NoVehicles.ut3"?

                      You might say you don't want to have to but hell, isn't that the very stuff of which communities are built around?
                      If you want it tweaked to just how you and your mates want, then build it that way, and revel in the glory as all those guys who feel the same as you join your leet server!

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                        #26
                        If vehicles are in DM, I won't buy the game. Neither will those who love DM and/or TDM like it always was since Doom 1 (although more balanced :P)

                        There is absolutely no reason to ruin the balance between weapons by adding vehicles, and no, they will NOT be balanced. It is nearly impossible to balance vehicles along with weapons for competition when it comes to COMBAT. They go much better where you have more tactical objectives, mostly Onslaught and Warfare.

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                          #27
                          Read the quote again. There is no vDM. sidefx is just misreading the article.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by BigJim View Post
                            Even in the very, very worst of cases, who can't open the Ed, delete the vehicle factories and then save under "DM-xxx-NoVehicles.ut3"?
                            If a map is designed to have vehicles (ex: very large) it won't play well without them. The maps would be too large to play just on foot.

                            Whisper could just be the name of the planet, and there are multiple game modes that take place on the planet (DM-Whisper, WAR-Whisper, etc.)

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                              #29
                              There are 30 to 40 official maps. Adding vehicles to DM means: Less maps with pure infantry DM.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Sb27441 View Post
                                Halo 2 and UT3 are two different games.

                                Incidentally, UT3 is supposed to be balanced.

                                With vehicles more resistant to small-arms fire in UT3, it seems that deathmatch may place players on foot at a severe disadvantage.

                                However, the concept still sounds quite fun and I'd like to see it implemented.

                                I know they´re different games. The point is, though, that vehicles can be balanced into other gametypes.
                                Supposedly there are 15 weapons in UT3, as well as some ability to eject a player from a vehicle adn lock it for 10 seconds. That´s pretty much how you deal with vehicles in Halo, so the same basic idea might still work.

                                Those who play something new expecting what always was should probably stay with what always was and let those of us who want a new experience enjoy it.

                                Another option is that mixing up the vehicles that appear should add more variety to the gameplay. The map will play entirely differently if you replace the Goliath with a Dark Walker or Nemesis, or the Fury with a Cicaida, and I´m looking forward to that variety.

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