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    #16
    Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
    The fact that you can take direct rocket strikes (which you can't) isn't exactly a plus, either.
    With UT2k4's netcode you sure can ;]

    Originally posted by iron12 View Post
    That’s what makes Gears look so cool. Those guys look like they have some mass behind them. Solid. And I think that’s the direction UT3 is going. So far I don’t see any cartwheels or flips. Just heavy duty, dudes and Dudits, lugging heavy duty weapons. Makes me feel mean going up against mean looking enemies.
    Beyond first impressions I don't really understand why thats so important... Not that I really even care if they do make it look more realistic or anything. Its just about how far they go with it. As long as it is all visual changes and whatnot I'm fine with it, because it really doesn't matter, but I really don't think you should change gameplay aspects just to fulfill some garbage that really doesn't even matter.


    Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
    The other skeletons are animated in ways that highlight how fake the entire experience is, and seems to rub in your face the fact that they have no weight, inertia, or mass. This is a problem, and the immersion within the game suffers. People often say 2k4 looks cartoony, but, honestly, the basis of classical animation is an understanding of how to simulate the proper look of physics.

    All good animation does this, even Bugs Bunny. There's a reason the "bouncing ball" squashes on impact, and elongates during rebound. The brain expects it, and notices something's off when it isn't there. Exaggerate the effect all you want, but you can't ignore it, and that's what most of the model's skeletal animations do in 2k4.
    Why stop there? Look at all of the onslaught vehicles, I don't even know where to start when trying to pick apart that karmaphysics train wreak. Raptors pushing Leviathans... Hellbenders getting pushed around by shockballs.. everything getting smacked around by shock primary. But none of that really stopped onslaught from becoming one of the most popular gametypes for ut2k4. All of that stuff is really superficial and, in my opinion, only has a small part in the overall experience.

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      #17
      Players tend to one of two extremes. Either an accurate presentation of the game world matters to you, or you're perfectly happy with bouncing pink blobs for player models.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Xyx View Post
        Players tend to one of two extremes. Either an accurate presentation of the game world matters to you, or you're perfectly happy with bouncing pink blobs for player models.
        It really isn't hard to accommodate both either. All they have to do is release a competitive mod with the game, as well as make the world that sits beneath it highly detailed and as physically accurate as it could possibly be. EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY... in their own respective world ;]

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          #19
          Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
          I thought the female Juggernaut models were some of the best females in the game. Why? Because they actually looked like super-powerful humans, who happen to be female. I get tired of every video game woman being straight off a Fashion Week runway.

          Sapphire and company may be nifty-looking in theory, but when put into the game, they're carrying weapons that have almost equal mass to their bodies. It isn't a "how strong is she" question. It's a "center of mass" thing. Having these skinny women cartwheel and bounce off walls while waving huge weapons with one hand just looks ridiculous. All the fine modeling and skinning in the world can't make this look believable, since it violates our suspension of disbelief. No matter how light the weapon, or how strong the wielder, blatant violations of inertia are something your brain cannot ignore. Like an otherwise well-drawn portrait whose eyes are just a little too close together, you will know something is wrong, even if you can't pin it down.

          Realism comes from many illusions in the game, not just art assets and lighting. The fact that the models are just weightless structures of polygons is highlighted by characters interacting with objects that have no impact on their movement or center of gravity. For example, a person can pivot in place with their arms in almost any position, but, when carrying a heavy object, or even a light but awkward one, they will draw their arms in close to their center of movement. The animators of the game should keep in mind that the characters need to react as if they're holding something with bulk, even if the weapoons are designed to weigh relatively little. Even if they were as light as styrofoam, the effect of their inertia would be clearly visible.

          The proportions of the models has a lot to do with how the game is perceived, and ignoring this fact undoes the work of a lot of other artists. I hope Epic keeps this in mind, since ignoring this becomes more and more evident as the realism of the rest of the visuals increases. If players get a subtle feeling that something's "off" while playing, and can't pin it down, this is an all-around flaw in the game, and an easy one for the designers to avoid.

          I'm hoping Epic takes this sort reasoning into consideration.
          I would agree with you, except the whole point of this game is to completely dodge realism in any way possible. Why do you think that ever since UT1 the premise of the game is that these WWE-type buff actors go into a VIRTUAL REALITY GAME so they can pick up an unlimited amount of weapons, double jump, and kill eachother over and over with no limit on respawns? The whole point of EPIC's approach toward the game franchise has been NO LIMITS.

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            #20
            Originally posted by Molgan View Post
            Rylisa was a babe, and I'm looking forward to seeing her in UT3. =)
            Quoted for emphasis. I hope her & Mr. Crow have hot love children that appear in UT3.

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              #21
              Originally posted by CaFe View Post
              It really isn't hard to accommodate both either. All they have to do is release a competitive mod with the game, as well as make the world that sits beneath it highly detailed and as physically accurate as it could possibly be. EVERYONE CAN BE HAPPY... in their own respective world ;]
              Or another way of putting it. You can have the players fly around like you’re in the matrix with no grounding in reality what so ever or you can have a visual representation that most can relate to. With little things like a sense of gravity.

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                #22
                Originally posted by iron12 View Post
                Or another way of putting it. You can have the players fly around like you’re in the matrix with no grounding in reality what so ever or you can have a visual representation that most can relate to. With little things like a sense of gravity.

                Yeah they are called mutators ROLL EYES

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Quagmire View Post
                  I would agree with you, except the whole point of this game is to completely dodge realism in any way possible. Why do you think that ever since UT1 the premise of the game is that these WWE-type buff actors go into a VIRTUAL REALITY GAME so they can pick up an unlimited amount of weapons, double jump, and kill eachother over and over with no limit on respawns? The whole point of EPIC's approach toward the game franchise has been NO LIMITS.
                  Theres difference's between realism in gameplay and graphics. The issue isnt whether this game is counter strike or (insert generic tac shooter here) its whether the characters look believable in the moves they pull off. I mean even the matrix right, not very realistic but the moves could be pulled off in real life. Its physically possible a human can move and bend the way it does to achieve that.

                  I think thats the point trying to be made, its not about realism as it is believability.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
                    Theres difference's between realism in gameplay and graphics. The issue isnt whether this game is counter strike or (insert generic tac shooter here) its whether the characters look believable in the moves they pull off. I mean even the matrix right, not very realistic but the moves could be pulled off in real life. Its physically possible a human can move and bend the way it does to achieve that.

                    I think thats the point trying to be made, its not about realism as it is believability.
                    Yeah but every time you try to explain that they always come back with. This is UN-real……..They just don’t get it….Hey speaking of unreal lets take away their skeletal structure and have them flip and flop from place to place like one of those elephant seals. That would make it even more UN-real….

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by iron12 View Post
                      Yeah but every time you try to explain that they always come back with. This is UN-real……..They just don’t get it….Hey speaking of unreal lets take away their skeletal structure and have them flip and flop from place to place like one of those elephant seals. That would make it even more UN-real….
                      Freakin' elephant seals with chain guns!!!!

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                        #26
                        How dare you! The girls are cuter than the guys!

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Flak View Post
                          How dare you! The girls are cuter than the guys!
                          Except Juggernaut girls

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                            #28
                            No. I think epic is going to spoil the whole f$@king game by listening to you people. The female juggs should not be brought in. It looks so bloody stupid. Whoever says they should be brought in should have their heads cut of and those headless people should stab their headless body. I always hated th female juggs. Hated playing with eem and hated being wth em. Anorexic women and female juggs to be kept out of this game. Now wait imagine the necris coming with the their big armies and suddenly these ugly jugg females come and shoot everyone. I think they are a bit out of place.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by rsgs92 View Post
                              No. I think epic is going to spoil the whole f$@king game by listening to you people. The female juggs should not be brought in. It looks so bloody stupid. Whoever says they should be brought in should have their heads cut of and those headless people should stab their headless body. I always hated th female juggs. Hated playing with eem and hated being wth em. Anorexic women and female juggs to be kept out of this game. Now wait imagine the necris coming with the their big armies and suddenly these ugly jugg females come and shoot everyone. I think they are a bit out of place.
                              Yes, anyone who disagrees with this notion should certainly be decapitated and stabbed... sorry, but the world doesnt revolve around you or your draconian sexist viewpoints on what should be available in a video game. If you dont like the female juggs then pick a different model, it's a simple concept. Nobody is forcing you to use them.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Quagmire View Post
                                the whole point of this game is to completely dodge realism in any way possible.
                                I can name more instances where realism is obeyed than you can name instances where it is not.

                                To give a few examples:
                                • People die when they get hit by a tank shell.
                                • People walk on the ground.
                                • People have heads. And arms. And legs.
                                • The ground is below, the sky is above.
                                • The wheels on the cars spin when the cars move.
                                • You need ammo to fire your weapon.
                                • You cannot be in two places at once.
                                • ...

                                Need I continue?

                                Compared to PacMan, this game everything but dodges realism.

                                Originally posted by iron12 View Post
                                Or another way of putting it. You can have the players fly around like you’re in the matrix with no grounding in reality what so ever or you can have a visual representation that most can relate to. With little things like a sense of gravity.
                                To put it even stronger, you can have a screen of green symbols trickling down, or you can see people on your screen. Which would you better relate to?

                                Originally posted by sidefx View Post
                                sorry, but the world doesnt revolve around you or your draconian sexist viewpoints on what should be available in a video game.
                                I think he was commenting more from an art direction perspective.

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