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    Juggernaut all male team

    I think Juggernauts should just be an all male team, just like the rawsteel team on UT1. A gene boosted women has got to be the craziest horrific thing ive heard. A friend of mine awhile ago had thought the character "Rylisa" I think her name is, was a male biker.

    #2
    Thats sexist, so I say **** that. The Female Juggs were never meant to be pretty!
    I'm sick of all the bimbo character's in videogames, they're predicatble and stupid.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Gregori View Post
      The Female Juggs
      Sorry, but had to point that out lol.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by harrier_rada View Post
        Sorry, but had to point that out lol.
        Yeah, i know about that one!

        Comment


          #5
          I don't want to see any jugs in UT3. And if you compared Rawsteel to Jugs then Rawsteel>Jugs
          It's my opinion.

          Comment


            #6
            I thought the female Juggernaut models were some of the best females in the game. Why? Because they actually looked like super-powerful humans, who happen to be female. I get tired of every video game woman being straight off a Fashion Week runway.

            Sapphire and company may be nifty-looking in theory, but when put into the game, they're carrying weapons that have almost equal mass to their bodies. It isn't a "how strong is she" question. It's a "center of mass" thing. Having these skinny women cartwheel and bounce off walls while waving huge weapons with one hand just looks ridiculous. All the fine modeling and skinning in the world can't make this look believable, since it violates our suspension of disbelief. No matter how light the weapon, or how strong the wielder, blatant violations of inertia are something your brain cannot ignore. Like an otherwise well-drawn portrait whose eyes are just a little too close together, you will know something is wrong, even if you can't pin it down.

            Realism comes from many illusions in the game, not just art assets and lighting. The fact that the models are just weightless structures of polygons is highlighted by characters interacting with objects that have no impact on their movement or center of gravity. For example, a person can pivot in place with their arms in almost any position, but, when carrying a heavy object, or even a light but awkward one, they will draw their arms in close to their center of movement. The animators of the game should keep in mind that the characters need to react as if they're holding something with bulk, even if the weapoons are designed to weigh relatively little. Even if they were as light as styrofoam, the effect of their inertia would be clearly visible.

            The proportions of the models has a lot to do with how the game is perceived, and ignoring this fact undoes the work of a lot of other artists. I hope Epic keeps this in mind, since ignoring this becomes more and more evident as the realism of the rest of the visuals increases. If players get a subtle feeling that something's "off" while playing, and can't pin it down, this is an all-around flaw in the game, and an easy one for the designers to avoid.

            I'm hoping Epic takes this sort reasoning into consideration.

            Comment


              #7
              Having an average human uggly chick doesnt bother me, but a gene boosted female orc does.

              Comment


                #8
                Rylisa was a babe, and I'm looking forward to seeing her in UT3. =)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
                  I thought the female Juggernaut models were some of the best females in the game. Why? Because they actually looked like super-powerful humans, who happen to be female. I get tired of every video game woman being straight off a Fashion Week runway.

                  Sapphire and company may be nifty-looking in theory, but when put into the game, they're carrying weapons that have almost equal mass to their bodies. It isn't a "how strong is she" question. It's a "center of mass" thing. Having these skinny women cartwheel and bounce off walls while waving huge weapons with one hand just looks ridiculous. All the fine modeling and skinning in the world can't make this look believable, since it violates our suspension of disbelief. No matter how light the weapon, or how strong the wielder, blatant violations of inertia are something your brain cannot ignore. Like an otherwise well-drawn portrait whose eyes are just a little too close together, you will know something is wrong, even if you can't pin it down.

                  Realism comes from many illusions in the game, not just art assets and lighting. The fact that the models are just weightless structures of polygons is highlighted by characters interacting with objects that have no impact on their movement or center of gravity. For example, a person can pivot in place with their arms in almost any position, but, when carrying a heavy object, or even a light but awkward one, they will draw their arms in close to their center of movement. The animators of the game should keep in mind that the characters need to react as if they're holding something with bulk, even if the weapoons are designed to weigh relatively little. Even if they were as light as styrofoam, the effect of their inertia would be clearly visible.

                  The proportions of the models has a lot to do with how the game is perceived, and ignoring this fact undoes the work of a lot of other artists. I hope Epic keeps this in mind, since ignoring this becomes more and more evident as the realism of the rest of the visuals increases. If players get a subtle feeling that something's "off" while playing, and can't pin it down, this is an all-around flaw in the game, and an easy one for the designers to avoid.

                  I'm hoping Epic takes this sort reasoning into consideration.
                  Are you kidding me? UT has NEVER been about realism. Look at the entire concept of the game, it is about going over the top with everything. Double jumping.... lol? Yes because in real life people can jump while already in the air right? And a male doing flips through the air and bouncing off walls while holding a 6-barreled chain gun is no more realistic than having a female do it. Or what about the fact that you can get hit IN THE FACE with 3 rockets and not die? Thats super realistic too. This isn't rainbow six, take your realism **** outta here sir. Exit's that way --->

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sidefx View Post
                    Are you kidding me? UT has NEVER been about realism. Look at the entire concept of the game, it is about going over the top with everything. Double jumping.... lol? Yes because in real life people can jump while already in the air right? And a male doing flips through the air and bouncing off walls while holding a 6-barreled chain gun is no more realistic than having a female do it. Or what about the fact that you can get hit IN THE FACE with 3 rockets and not die? Thats super realistic too. This isn't rainbow six, take your realism **** outta here sir. Exit's that way --->
                    My post has nothing to do with "unrealism" as such. The point is that the illusion of an alternate reality is broken when the game violates its own carefully-created illusion of physics with poor animations. The fact that you can take direct rocket strikes (which you can't) isn't exactly a plus, either.

                    Clearly, my suggestions regarding animations, model scale, and your point regarding weapon damage weren't issues in UT99, and look where that game went. Good animations, proper model scaling, and high weapon damage. And yet, shockingly, nobody claimed that game was super-realistic, either, and nobody claimed Rainbow Six was a UT clone when it was released.

                    Re-read my post, and this time try to understand the issues I'm pointing out. Disagree if you want to, without getting insulting. It's just too bad that opinions that don't match your own cause you to show people the door, rather than considering the points they raise.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sidefx - I think you missed the point Hedge-o-Matic was trying to make .. but never mind.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        In conclusion, Jugs are fine in UT3, but not when said Jugs are those belonging to Juggs.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Hedge-o-Matic View Post
                          My post has nothing to do with "unrealism" as such. The point is that the illusion of an alternate reality is broken when the game violates its own carefully-created illusion of physics with poor animations. The fact that you can take direct rocket strikes (which you can't) isn't exactly a plus, either.

                          Clearly, my suggestions regarding animations, model scale, and your point regarding weapon damage weren't issues in UT99, and look where that game went. Good animations, proper model scaling, and high weapon damage. And yet, shockingly, nobody claimed that game was super-realistic, either, and nobody claimed Rainbow Six was a UT clone when it was released.

                          Re-read my post, and this time try to understand the issues I'm pointing out. Disagree if you want to, without getting insulting. It's just too bad that opinions that don't match your own cause you to show people the door, rather than considering the points they raise.
                          I was mainly referring to your comment about how ridiculous it looks to have women bouncing off walls while wielding large weapons. It looks equally as ridiculous, and violates just as many "center of mass" or "laws of gravity" or whatever, for the males as it does with the female models. When dodges break long jump records, and the laws of gravity are twisted to begin with, nobody really cares that a model might not be able to handle a certain weapon "if it was real". Because "if it was real" even the juggs wouldnt be able to carry them...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Yeah, but the Juggs actually move as if carrying a lot of weight. It's how they're animated, more than their look, that makes them look better than the "twiggy" style women. As to how strong they are, that's not a problem. Hey, you want to jump 50 feet? Go ahead, just have your legs bend a bit when you land, to absorb your own inertia. That's what I'm talking about. People move in a certain way, and when we see a photo-realistic model of a person, it'll look like **** if they don't move the way people actually move, because that's what we've come to expect through a lifetime of experience.

                            the Juggs crouch before and after jumps and dodges. They bring their arms in a bit when wall-dodging. They hold their arms out just a bit when jumping or falling downward. This looks good.

                            The other skeletons are animated in ways that highlight how fake the entire experience is, and seems to rub in your face the fact that they have no weight, inertia, or mass. This is a problem, and the immersion within the game suffers. People often say 2k4 looks cartoony, but, honestly, the basis of classical animation is an understanding of how to simulate the proper look of physics.

                            All good animation does this, even Bugs Bunny. There's a reason the "bouncing ball" squashes on impact, and elongates during rebound. The brain expects it, and notices something's off when it isn't there. Exaggerate the effect all you want, but you can't ignore it, and that's what most of the model's skeletal animations do in 2k4.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              That’s what makes Gears look so cool. Those guys look like they have some mass behind them. Solid. And I think that’s the direction UT3 is going. So far I don’t see any cartwheels or flips. Just heavy duty, dudes and Dudits, lugging heavy duty weapons. Makes me feel mean going up against mean looking enemies.

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