New moves?

[Moloko]

Might sound a bit mean spirited to noobs, but I hope the movement has plenty of difficult timing, keyed options(new ones) for complex maneuvers while in battle, any idea of limiting movement would lessen skill and make it a case of running around like a brick on legs, making it harder to show the wheat from the chaff, as with Quake 4 IMHO. As a kid the fancy moves of the kung fu and other fighting arcade videogames had me hooked. To sum up I think there should be more movement options to learn, this time round Kung fu with guns would be just fine with me. Whatever happens don't fall into the Quake 4 trap.

[-echohawk-]

Plasmaclimbing with link mebbe?

[Magwa]

to review probably a good idea to go back and play Unreal and UT..the movement will be like those games and it worked just fine ..

[Kronos]

Quake 4 has plenty of movement abilities, just as many as Quake 3 does. Infact its the exact same as Quake 3 just with more stiffness to it.

[Moloko]

No games need some wildcards in terms of movement Q4 feels stiff it's as though they spent 97% of their time developing the environment and 3% on the player model and movement ,it's like an afterthought, a brick on legs.

[EntropicLqd]

No. Just no. In fact, my distaste for that idea goes beyond no into the realms of loathing and probably out the other side.

UT is about sticking a large overpowered weapon in someones face and pulling the trigger. Not about mashing keys to hit move combo's.

There's a reason they are getting rid of Adrenaline combo's and the dodge-jumping. It's because they suck.

[Moloko]

No. Just no. In fact, my distaste for that idea goes beyond no into the realms of loathing and probably out the other side.

UT is about sticking a large overpowered weapon in someones face and pulling the trigger. Not about mashing keys to hit move combo's.

There's a reason they are getting rid of Adrenaline combo's and the dodge-jumping. It's because they suck.

The logical conclusion, to what your saying would be reduce it to walking pace then everyone can get a kill.

[X-Cannon]

The logical conclusion, to what your saying would be reduce it to walking pace then everyone can get a kill.

IMHO the logical conclusion is that he plays UT99

[ADiTheMAN]

I get the impression your at the wrong game, this isn't a fighting game with cool moves/combos... ut isn't about the moves or whatever, its First person shooter... it will be: walking, dodging, walldodging, jumping, and doublejumping. EPIC also made clear they wanna make it easier for the "noobs" to get kills, basicly making the skillrange in the game smaller then in UT2004 where they think that the difference between the really skilled people and the "noobs" is too big which makes the "noobs" quite the game because they just can't get the kills... i dno if they will really succeed in this.... but their goal is actually to make the movement easier to master instead of what you're suggesting: making it more complex. :>

[Boksha]

any idea of limiting movement would lessen skill

This sentence has no meaning in the english language.
Anyway, I'll copy what I said in another thread:

I'm just getting a bit sick of people saying: "This game requires more skill than that game" or worse, meaningless remarks like: "This game is more skillful than the other game".
Remarks like these certainly apply to singleplayer games which have a set difficulty level, but it's nonsensical when applied to multiplayer games because those are only as hard as your opponent is good.
A lot of people seem to think having more moves makes a game harder, like they think chess is harder than checkers, but IMO this doesn't make sense. Both games are easy when played against your 4 year old kid or mentally retarded cousin, but somewhat more challenging when playing a world champion.
In the end skill in multiplayer games is not measured by whether you know all the moves but by whether you can defeat an opponent, and that remains unchanged when removing or adding moves and options.

As for the Quake4 trap comment; Quake4 had a lot more problems than clunky movement. It was generally a badly designed, boring game.
For the kung-fu comment... if you like fighting games so much, why not play... a fighting game? Revolutionary thought, I know. Just thought I'd mention it.

And ADiTheMAN; I wouldn't say the skill range was smaller in UT. There were crappy players and really good players in there as well, it just showed less in the scores on public DM servers.

[Bitterman5]

No. Just no. In fact, my distaste for that idea goes beyond no into the realms of loathing and probably out the other side.

UT is about sticking a large overpowered weapon in someones face and pulling the trigger. Not about mashing keys to hit move combo's.

There's a reason they are getting rid of Adrenaline combo's and the dodge-jumping. It's because they suck.

UT is about whatever Epic decides its about.

They're getting rid of it because players were so used to UT's gameplay. Some one made a great post about this recently which basically said if the reverse had occured, ie Unreal starting with UT2k3's style of gameplay and then switching to UT99 style gameplay in a sequel there would have been just as much outcry.

UT skills didnt carry over very well to UT2k3.

Excerpt from an article on fear of change

Let’s look at the example of implementing a new computer system, say a new ERP system. Implementing a new ERP system will change everything; how our work is performed and how we interact with others inside and outside our department. It may require new skills. It may make some of our existing skills obsolete. Given that, it would not be unlikely that we may fear the change. We may fear that we will suffer a loss of power or control when the new system is implemented. We may fear that our hard earned experience and knowledge will be obsolete. We may worry that we won’t be able to learn or use the new system or that we won’t be able to keep up with the already overwhelming workload.

[da ghost]

Excerpt from an article on fear of change

Let’s look at the example of implementing a new computer system, say a new ERP system. Implementing a new ERP system will change everything; how our work is performed and how we interact with others inside and outside our department. It may require new skills. It may make some of our existing skills obsolete. Given that, it would not be unlikely that we may fear the change. We may fear that we will suffer a loss of power or control when the new system is implemented. We may fear that our hard earned experience and knowledge will be obsolete. We may worry that we won’t be able to learn or use the new system or that we won’t be able to keep up with the already overwhelming workload.

Magwa, are you reading this?

[Roulette]

All change is not improvement. Games are subjective, so change is difficult to judge. But that doesn't mean anyone that raises a complaint or foresees a problem with change is afraid of change or unable to adapt. In some cases the person is just attempting to prevent a potential defect. It's up to the designer to take this input and determine if the concern is valid and address it appropriately.

IMO, going back towards matrix moves is bad for the franchise. More complicated movement options increase the learning curve, which is already fairly high for UT. High curves can discourage new players. Unreal will never play around with CS numbers, but with increasing online competition from other fps games and MMOs, you have to appeal to the larger audience wherever you can without compromising the customer base.

[MonsOlympus]

So first off what new moves would you add? why?

How would you balance these moves with existing movement options? and the rest of the core gameplay?

What look should these moves have to make them fit within the style of UT3?

How would this move be performed? how would you compensate for the gamepad vs keyboard and mouse?

[Magwa]

Magwa, are you reading this?

NO because it does not apply..i have never been adverse to change i have been adamant about changes that suck!

although i am first to admit i have bi_tched my share about the game since 2k3 i obviously am not alone, NEXT!