Vehicle armor should ricochet bullets and...

[Phopojijo]

So get in the minigun turret and kill him. Or, get out of the tank, kill him and get back in it.

Preferred the latter so no-one carjacks you.

[Xyx]

Reality should be a context built by the developer and given to the player.

And yet the developer cannot decide what is real (enough) to a player and what is not. The developer has to build this context inside context of the player's perspective. For example, most people accept that their avatar can stand upright with nothing but their toe on an invisible pixel on the edge of some platform in a Mario game, but most won't accept the same from their avatar in a game that appears to obey a whole lot more laws of physics.

Do you have fun playing Unreal Tournament?

I see room for improvement.

[Bishop Gantry]

Atmosphere doesn't actually thrive on proper realism provided consistency. Reality should be a context built by the developer and given to the player.

And by the way, I was originally referring to atmosphere as in how a game plays. Contrary to popular belief, a lot more popular than I wish, two games can play two different ways and still be fun. Halo plays one way, Unreal plays another, Battlefield yet another, Counterstrike yet another, and HalfLife crowbar-carves yet another path of its own.

Each has their fanboys who fail to acknowledge any other game (mostly Counterstrike)... all are "just first person shooters"... and yet each play in very different ways if you get to know them. (So yea, wrong definition of atmosphere )

Do you have fun playing Unreal Tournament?

I have a hard time grasping the atmosphere in a game taking candy colored powerups, arcadic diluted gameplay with weapons floating on pidestals in a supposed grim future when it feels like playing a kids candy show all we need is some circus freaks ah wait ut2k4 has those too ...

Unreal Fabolous
Unreal Tournament funny
UT 2003 chek plz
UT 2004 There is only Ons, Skaarj and Jugglies
Unreal2 Just about missed everything that made Unreal1 so good, altough it still looked perty...

The later literations of the Unreal franchise have been severly diluted with all the fun factor and immersive atmosphere stripped away, saving grace of UT2004 was Ons and vehicles...

Epic really needs to get back to the atmosphere and the weapons again, well atleast atmosphere since they blew the weapons already...

[_Lynx]

Shooting through a wall of steel with a pistol? Silly.

Fixing vehicles with link gun and building nodes with it? Silly...

[Phopojijo]

I have a hard time grasping the atmosphere in a game taking candy colored powerups, arcadic diluted gameplay with weapons floating on pidestals in a supposed grim future when it feels like playing a kids candy show all we need is some circus freaks ah wait ut2k4 has those too ...

Unreal Fabolous
Unreal Tournament funny
UT 2003 chek plz
UT 2004 There is only Ons, Skaarj and Jugglies
Unreal2 Just about missed everything that made Unreal1 so good, altough it still looked perty...

The later literations of the Unreal franchise have been severly diluted with all the fun factor and immersive atmosphere stripped away, saving grace of UT2004 was Ons and vehicles...

Epic really needs to get back to the atmosphere and the weapons again, well atleast atmosphere since they blew the weapons already...

You realize that the atmosphere in question (albeit you appear to be referring to aesthetic atmosphere rather than game-mechanics atmosphere like the quote you referenced) is *intentional*, correct?

Unreal Tournament *is* supposed to be an intergalactic media circus. They can pull off serious aesthetics... see: Gears of War. Perhaps there should be holocameras floating around to give further the impression of Arena Deathmatches? One would think an announcer yelling "HOLYYYY ****TTT" would be enough.

[Bishop Gantry]

You realize that the atmosphere in question (albeit you appear to be referring to aesthetic atmosphere rather than game-mechanics atmosphere like the quote you referenced) is *intentional*, correct?

Unreal Tournament *is* supposed to be an intergalactic media circus. They can pull off serious aesthetics... see: Gears of War. Perhaps there should be holocameras floating around to give further the impression of Arena Deathmatches? One would think an announcer yelling "HOLYYYY ****TTT" would be enough.

UT dark and gritty and everyone loved it...
UT2003 color n candy everyone hated it...

[Phopojijo]

UT dark and gritty and everyone loved it...
UT2003 color n candy everyone hated it...

A bit absolute actually. May want to tone down opinion of the demographic you talk to versus the absolute demographic who plays the game.

P.S. -- You just shifted your argument from "It doesn't make sense" to "Everyone hated it" when I told you how it made sense in context with the reality provided. That is actually an example of how realism doesn't necessarily make a game better... proving my point a couple pages ago.

[search161]

Realism can be fun. Sci-fi space candy can be fun. The key to success in either of those is consistency. Many games, movies and books remove realism to some degree, but it's they way they bend reality and consitantly stick to their new set of rules that makes the immersion complete. For example, from my point of view it is completely unrealistic that ppl would enter a combat arena like UT2k4 without massive amounts of armor, but ppl don't like the way that looks and prefer to see people in standard combat fatigues that barely stop a butter knife. And that's if they're not showing off their tats and 6-packs!
So for me, the vehicle combat does not have to be real (you're not taking down the M1 Bradley with an M16, sorry), it just has to consistent in a way that makes sense within the context of the reality that is UT2kx.

[Phopojijo]

Realism can be fun. Sci-fi space candy can be fun. The key to success in either of those is consistency. Many games, movies and books remove realism to some degree, but it's they way they bend reality and consitantly stick to their new set of rules that makes the immersion complete. For example, from my point of view it is completely unrealistic that ppl would enter a combat arena like UT2k4 without massive amounts of armor, but ppl don't like the way that looks and prefer to see people in standard combat fatigues that barely stop a butter knife. And that's if they're not showing off their tats and 6-packs!
So for me, the vehicle combat does not have to be real (you're not taking down the M1 Bradley with an M16, sorry), it just has to consistent in a way that makes sense within the context of the reality that is UT2kx.

Well put... although the reason for the lack of armor actually is defined. Combination of the Tournament's original purpose being to control miner violence without having staff fatalities, the fact that the teleporters make the armor redundant, and that it would bring in a larger audience to have more bloodshed.

[Bishop Gantry]

A bit absolute actually. May want to tone down opinion of the demographic you talk to versus the absolute demographic who plays the game.

P.S. -- You just shifted your argument from "It doesn't make sense" to "Everyone hated it" when I told you how it made sense in context with the reality provided. That is actually an example of how realism doesn't necessarily make a game better... proving my point a couple pages ago.

Well since people hating it and it not making goes hand in hand its not really shufting the argument merly broadening it...

[Phopojijo]

Well since people hating it and it not making goes hand in hand its not really shufting the argument merly broadening it...

Obviously not since it *does* make sense, and people still hate it (note: I like it, but meh). Look at the movie industry, they go and change weapons noises and add incendiaries to explosions to make them look and sound more interesting. Now look at what "Liandri" does in his own universe -- gives people candyland colourful guns, weak armor, etc. to draw in a larger audience.

If the tournament literally is a media circus, it completely makes sense... how is that "broadening" the argument? You're completely deleting the argument and saying something completely off-topic then somehow claiming that because your off-topic remark is true, everything you said is true.

I guess if that logic does stand in arguments... the sky is blue on a clear sunny noon therefore you're a girl. Wow, a girl who plays unreal tournament! Do you like pasta? I know a really good Italian restaurant... my treat...

[Bishop Gantry]

Obviously not since it *does* make sense, and people still hate it (note: I like it, but meh). Look at the movie industry, they go and change weapons noises and add incendiaries to explosions to make them look and sound more interesting. Now look at what "Liandri" does in his own universe -- gives people candyland colourful guns, weak armor, etc. to draw in a larger audience.

If the tournament literally is a media circus, it completely makes sense... how is that "broadening" the argument? You're completely deleting the argument and saying something completely off-topic then somehow claiming that because your off-topic remark is true, everything you said is true.

I guess if that logic does stand in arguments... the sky is blue on a clear sunny noon therefore you're a girl. Wow, a girl who plays unreal tournament! Do you like pasta? I know a really good Italian restaurant... my treat...

Im only a chromosome off, thats good enough for you hun?
---
By adding more dedicated anti vehicle weapons would free up the anti infantry weapons to be better ballanced for deathmatch by esentially removing variables involving damage done against vehicles...

[Kronos]

UT is not about realism, but about beeing fun. If you want realism go and play realistic tactic shooters, that is not UT. If you are skilled enough to blow up a tank with an enforcer you should have the possibility to do so and that is why UNREAL Tournament alway was such fun. When Epic thinks something is fun they implement it into the game no matter how unrealistic and I think that's quite a good way of making games beeing big fun.

UT may not be about realism but it sure isnt about being entirely fake either. The game was simply called Unreal for its outstanding universe, not because it means anything near being unbelievably fake. Cartoons dont even go to the point where a pistol can blow up a tank, if it does, its not because its a cartoon, its because it was no ordinary pistol.

[search161]

And the enforcers are no ordinary pistols, so there you go.

Come on folks, this is a sci-fi fps, where YOU get to play an uber-powerful arena warrior or gladiator in some whacked out future where it's possible to damage any opponent with any gun at any time. It's not supposed to be "like real life" or "realistic", per-se. If super detailed realism is for you, then there's this company called Jane's that makes some kick *** flight and air combat sims. Unreal is so far bent from reality that arguing for features based on "it's more real" makes almost no sense as you immediately open up a slippery slope to making all of it more real, and then we don't have the game we love.

If you want only some weapons to damage some vehicles, try arguing from a gameplay / balance issue standpoint, or just to make the game "deeper". But arguing that it's not realistic doesn't work. Especially because you didn't talk which weapons could damage the dragons!

[Bishop Gantry]

And the enforcers are no ordinary pistols, so there you go.

Come on folks, this is a sci-fi fps, where YOU get to play an uber-powerful arena warrior or gladiator in some whacked out future where it's possible to damage any opponent with any gun at any time. It's not supposed to be "like real life" or "realistic", per-se. If super detailed realism is for you, then there's this company called Jane's that makes some kick *** flight and air combat sims. Unreal is so far bent from reality that arguing for features based on "it's more real" makes almost no sense as you immediately open up a slippery slope to making all of it more real, and then we don't have the game we love.

If you want only some weapons to damage some vehicles, try arguing from a gameplay / balance issue standpoint, or just to make the game "deeper". But arguing that it's not realistic doesn't work. Especially because you didn't talk which weapons could damage the dragons!

The game would appear more polished and complete if it where more coherent aswell separating anti infantry weapons from anti vehicle weapons would have the additonal benefits of simplyfing ballance on an order of several levels not to mention addig further immersion and much needed depth to the game...