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Regarding this 10-second before vehicle re-entry idear.....

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    #46
    Originally posted by Xyx View Post
    That would be an extremely silly way to force people to build nodes. You cannot force people to do something they don't want to.
    In my experience, you can. With ONS plus, since you get points for linking to a node builder, we have seen a change in player behaviour. You get more team play, and players stop the selfish behavior of refusing to link.

    So that's why I think you could implement zonal protection. If you frag 5 (or even 3) players in a row in the same non-active zone (i.e. a locked base or a locked node) then you can still frag them but you get no more points. Once the zone becomes active, or you frag in a different zone, the counter resets.

    Obviously this would be ONS\warfare only.

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      #47
      Originally posted by Carinae View Post
      Sorry, but the spawn/base camping issue was, well, ot an important issue in ONS, as it had it's advantages & disadvantages and made the game deeper for it. Once a player progressed past a basic level of experience/skill, he/she rarely became a victim of repeated spawn killing & is often able to render a sloppy/stat padding spawn killer into a liability for his own team....... the exception of course is when the base is the only spawn option --at that point the game is over anyways
      +1. Spawn-camping of any kind is a fact of gameplay. If you are pushed back into your core, then you should be in trouble, and often you are. Anywhere else, there are tactics to disposing of a spawn-camper.

      As far as the 10-sec ejection issue (which I think this thread might still be about), I guess i will have to wait and see. I am not entirely sure what the advantage of this feature is for ONS, but I am sure there is some good thought going into it.

      I strongly dislike the "dump your vehicle at a node to pick up a better one" tactic by some (usually unsophisicated) players, but it is unavoidable on pubs. As far as touch-n-go on nodes, however, that ends up being highly valuable to shaping a map strat. So, in Dawn, when my team is pushing one side, and I touch the other in my raptor and then go tank hunting, it shows something to the other team that makes it harder for them to see us coming down one side. I think it will be harder to do this in ONS/Warfare, since most of the videos show peeps going inside to take down or energize a node. So, my next question is...will there be a valet outside to take your keys (and everyone elses) while you are orbing it up at the node?

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        #48
        Ahh well Im not so concerned with spawn kills because putting the spawn points on capture points will always bring about that. It can get annoying but my concern was with people camping the base and waiting for the core to be unshielded so they could attack it straight away. Ive seen infantry, tanks and raptors all do this, yes when the core is still shielded. It would be nice to have doors on some bases, would have been handy on torlan 1.

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          #49
          Originally posted by MonsOlympus View Post
          It can get annoying but my concern was with people camping the base and waiting for the core to be unshielded so they could attack it straight away. Ive seen infantry, tanks and raptors all do this, yes when the core is still shielded..
          I hear you, but I have to disagree. I find it really annoying to be smeared repeatedly by a manta (or tanks or raptors) before I can even get my hands on a weapon, but I would argue that it happens a LOT less when you have a map that has more than one primary, so that all the spawning is focused in one place. So, I would argue that's a map issue.

          As far as waiting in the base goes, often with a team pushing hard on the core, there can be small windows of opportunity to hit the core before OT (with balanced teams in a close match), and getting those licks in quickly are important imo. So, while I don't regularly camp the core, if the gameplay is flowing that way and I am in my raptor, I may stick close to the core to keep 4-5 guys occupied so my team can get the node up and get some licks in on the old girl.

          Oh, and btw, I am working on a project (from the US) near Perth. Small world.

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            #50
            Originally posted by Joe Wilcox View Post
            Auto-turrets are a horrible solution to anything and should be avoided at all costs.
            Whoohoo. Then why did Epic include them in pretty much every Assault map ever made?

            I look forward to hearing more about Epic's new ways of discouraging spawn rape.

            Originally posted by Carinae View Post
            the overpowered cheese that is the current state of spider mines.
            Compared to what? The Manta? The Shock Rifle?

            Originally posted by rhiridflaidd View Post
            With ONS plus, since you get points for linking to a node builder, we have seen a change in player behaviour. You get more team play, and players stop the selfish behavior of refusing to link.
            Not because they grudgingly accept defeat, but because they just want points and don't give a **** how they get them. This is an excellent example of how to change behavior through other means than force.

            Originally posted by >>Gunslinger<< View Post
            Spawn-camping of any kind is a fact of gameplay.
            Such pessimism. There are alternatives, you know? Like longer spawn protection times or spawning weapons that do not suck.

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              #51
              Originally posted by Xyx View Post
              Such pessimism. There are alternatives, you know? Like longer spawn protection times or spawning weapons that do not suck.
              Well my alternative would be to move the spawn location somewhere out of the way of the capture point. Maybe somewhere with alittle bit of cover and a good position for defense and recapture of the point if necessary.

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                #52
                Precisely, that's one way of handling it. Instead, we could all just sit back and say "hey, spawnkilling is a part of the game". But it isn't. We're talking about a game that is still under development here. It will be, yes, but only if nobody gives a ****. Only if server admins will content themselves with a default 3-second spawn protection time. Only if Epic makes the enforcers the same pathetic pea shooter piece of **** that the Assault Rifle is. Now is Epic's chance to construct a game that will receive rare praise for its lack of spawnkilling.

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                  #53
                  im sure theyll come up with something that plays well.

                  For example, it would suck if you bailed out and coudnt get back in yet an opponent could. I like the emp grenade idea, the vehicle is rendered out of actiond for a time period, both players have to think about engaging dm style, holding off, or making a play for the vehicle when its back in action.

                  Sounds like a nice way of empowring foot players. UT2k4 worked really well because foot players could be powerful, tanks could be hidden from with terrain, air vehicles were vulnerable to Avrils/shock, benders were deadly with passnegers but a lone drive could usually be handled. It all worked really well and the game was fun whether you liked playing in vehicles or on foot or both. imo the most important thing for the game will be to retain this balance.

                  With all the new firepower out there they have to ensure foot players are no push over. My biggest concern is actually that the mantarizing you mention will become all powerful if a player cant dodge jump out the way. If you cant dodge easily and its still an insta kill then the game will really get frustrating quick. Any foot player will just get creamed from behind by all the manta whres .

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                    #54
                    Other things that can be used to reduce spawnkilling would be (from XMP) spawn timers and cameras. The system is different than in ONS, but with the physical deploy point with the central column (so hard to drive by and get everyone) and a camera that allowed you to spin around the point and see what you were spawning into. Add the timer (short one) so that teammates get spawned together for mutual protection... makes it a lot harder.

                    The Spawntimer was certainly controversial back when it was discussed on the INA boards when UT2k3 was coming out... but I think it could work. I'd certainly like to see it as an option, along with the camera.

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