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Before you can create any successful map you need to be a player first!

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    #31
    Originally Posted by brad
    I created two of the most popular maps for one of my favorite gametypes. How? I was a great player. I knew what people liked, therefor gave them what they wanted. I knew what I wanted, and created it. The problem with most map authors is that they suck at the game and dont know what the players actually want! They're just designers! However if you're a great player and a great designer, you've got a great map.
    This is pure ego man, have you even played any of the great custom maps for 2k4. Im not sure what the skill level of the people that built them are but they sure didnt do it single handed without any outside opinions what so ever. Im sure they consulted many players with different ranges of skill levels and other mappers who would have provided feedback.

    As other have said being a good player might get you a decent map but in my experience the best feedback comes from other mappers or people who dont consider themselves the be all end all. Its a multi pronged process covering aspects of art, design and gameplay. Im scared to think what a pro player would make for a map, probably a pit here a dodge ramp there, we got a little rankin happening so lets umm add 2 shocks and 3 lightning guns. Then we end up with pro-subtractedcube-w/pits-alittlelikeothermaps-w/noimagination.ut2!

    I can easily see that a mapper thats not a good player can make a decent map with enough feedback from the community. I would really think a decent enough player wouldnt have time to map and if they did Im sure the map would be over tested because they prefer to play rather than make maps. Otherwise how did they find the time in there busy mapping life to become such a good player? Im sure Unrealed gives them plenty of time to practise aim etc.

    Now Im not saying you cant be a great mapper/player but you really got to wiegh it up. I know plenty of mappers who could suggest better weapon placements than pro players. This isnt because pro's dont have skills its because mappers have lent themselves to learning about processes involved in making maps instead of becoming 1337 fR34k players/

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      #32
      Stands to reason - if you're spending all day practicing your aim and pwning noobs then you aren't getting down to business & making fab maps & content..

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        #33
        Originally posted by BigJim
        Stands to reason - if you're spending all day practicing your aim and pwning noobs then you aren't getting down to business & making fab maps & content..
        Not unless you upgrade to 36 hour days

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          #34
          Originally posted by elmuerte
          Not unless you upgrade to 36 hour days
          So if Ive got a dualcore does that mean I get 48 rofl

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            #35
            I'm a very average DM/TDM player, because I don't have much time to play, but I understand the gameplay & layout mechanics enough to create decent DM maps to play on, imo.

            I rely heavily on beta tester feedback and those who are good at playing the game. I also do a lot of playtesting on other people's maps, studying what works and what doesn't, and that helps me improve my skills.

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              #36
              Everyones got great points!

              And please, I'm not trying to come off as "great" maybe I shouldn't have used that word. Great maybe in my own little world.

              Anyways, yeah I agree you dont have to be a great player to build great maps, but it helps ALOT! Any way you look at it, I'd rather a map designed by an average mapper who is good at PLAYING the game. Than an average player who is GREAT at mapping. Because the better player will have a higher understanding of gameplay mechanics and build with that mentality. I'm not saying it's impossible for a great mapper do create a fun map. But they tend to get carried away with the visuals and how detailed things are and loose focus of the big picture!

              Just my opinion.

              I know I'd rather play a map that has basic walls and textures, but fun to play. Than a map that is incredibly well detailed and artistic but lacks gameplay. Because in the end its the gameplay that keeps you playing not the fancy architecture.

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                #37
                What maps have you made Brad? I've never heard of you before.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by drak0n
                  You don't know that for sure
                  Na I'm sure he would frag me all over the arena.

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                    #39
                    well since he said for RA, I did a google for Rocket Arena Brad and the only map I could find for RA was by a person called Brad Ridder is RA-Qwerty, googling the name finds other maps, but whether it's him or not who knows

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                      #40
                      I hear Andaction is popular. Man you have to be real good to make popular maps.

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                        #41
                        No, I didn't do RA-Qwerty.

                        I did RA-Broken and RA-Beta-c.

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                          #42
                          ^yup

                          Playing too much makes you map differently.

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                            #43
                            Before you can create any successful map you need to be a playa first

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                              #44
                              I don't think you have to be an awesome player to make an awesome map. To be honest, I see myself as quite a good player </modesty> but I still don't understand most of the game - it's quite difficult to put your finger on what aspects of a map make it flow, what make it enjoyable, what make it good.

                              It depends on what type of player you are - an analytical player, or a casual gamer. The former will be able to make a good map even if they are not necessarily that good at the game, whilst the latter I'm sure would struggle to even get a good structure going, let alone be able to get the general layout and flow to work.

                              I'm sure you'll agree that the ability to get 50% LG accuracy and the ability to make a map flow are different things, but certainly you need to play the game before you can map it.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by elmuerte
                                Not unless you upgrade to 36 hour days
                                Yeah, that's how Angelheart does it.

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