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Wall-walking, AvP2 style

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  • replied
    Cool! I only wish a mod similar to half-life 1's natural selection pops up sometime. That was the greatest fps/rts hybrid as well as the best aliens-style-scary mod ever!

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  • replied
    Yes. Just use two states, one for walking the other for wall-walking. When the player enters the appropriate volume, switch states.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ambershee View Post
    His point was, that while meshes are indeed very complicated and detailed, it's not an issue, because they have an invisible 'collision' component that is used to determine where the player hits it. However, existing maps use blocking volumes to block off areas, which cause complications.

    I should point out that a player should not be able to walk on a blocking volume anyway.
    Thanks for clearing that up. As a follow up, would it be possible to build a volume that would allow you to walk/wall-walk on a static mesh?

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  • replied
    His point was, that while meshes are indeed very complicated and detailed, it's not an issue, because they have an invisible 'collision' component that is used to determine where the player hits it. However, existing maps use blocking volumes to block off areas, which cause complications.

    I should point out that a player should not be able to walk on a blocking volume anyway.

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  • replied
    Thanks for the replies guys, I would love to get a look at the wall walking code to mess around with it if you're willing. Mostly I'm still learning, so your examples would be really helpful.

    On the static mesh note: would creating fresh static meshes and messing around with the BSP blocking volumes largely take care of the issue with static mesh issues? What problem are the BSP block problems causing exactly? And what is the work around you tend to use? I found it a little difficult to parse some of Apoc's qutoe:

    The walls only *look* complicated in UT3 maps... The surfaces a player typically touches are actually relatively simple invisible BSP blocking volumes, while what you *see* is a complicated static mesh that you don't collide with (often). It's actually a right pain in the *** to deal with so that one only wallruns on blocking volumes that have static meshes near/behind them. I dealt with this problem in the UT2k4 version, but it has been a bit tougher (and more prevalent) in UT3.

    -Safe

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  • replied
    I got wall-walking working without much difficulty, but my current issue is getting the player mesh orientation correct, which is proving to be a pain.

    As for using volumes or binding to crouch, both are valid techniques with few ramifications.

    I'm going to be using volumes, personally, as we're only using it very rarely in special circumstances, not as a major feature for the project.

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  • replied
    I confess that I only played the original AvP very briefly years ago. That said, it seems that making volumes for the different behaviors would be rather kludgy and difficult to work with. Implementing complicated player-controlled behavior in the Pawn and PlayerController classes works pretty well for the MatrixMoves, so I can't imagine that you couldn't continue on that path for your mod. Perhaps the volume thing takes out some potential for user interface complication, but I'd think it would be at the cost of the player feeling like they were in control of what they could do. Just my $0.02.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ApocDeath View Post
    PHYS_Spider *is* in UT3, but the supporting PlayerController code had been removed. I have ported the UT2004 code for my as-yet unreleased Apoc MatrixMoves port to UT3, and now wallrunning works quite well. You'll be able to hack out the Wallrunning stuff from the Apoc MatrixMoves codebase (I'll be releasing it under an open license, so you'll be very much encouraged to mess with the code) and with a little tweaking, I'm sure you could achieve the AvP wallrunning feel.
    I have actually begun tinkering with some of the original Matrix Moves stuff from UT2k4, but as I'm a novice I'm glad to hear that someone more experienced is working with it. I suppose as everything moves closer to the first release phase of the Make Something Unreal contest we will see a lot of functionality appear.

    I should be clear that I am not truly working on a direct AvP2 mod. However, the mod I am working on requires many distinct player characters, and the team is very adamant about including a direct replica of the alien play style in AvP2, which I would imagine will influence every aspect of the game so that anyone who wishes to make AvP2 maps or mods can easily do so. This point is rather relevant to Apoc's other info:

    Originally posted by ApocDeath;
    The walls only *look* complicated in UT3 maps... The surfaces a player typically touches are actually relatively simple invisible BSP blocking volumes, while what you *see* is a complicated static mesh that you don't collide with (often). It's actually a right pain in the *** to deal with so that one only wallruns on blocking volumes that have static meshes near/behind them. I dealt with this problem in the UT2k4 version, but it has been a bit tougher (and more prevalent) in UT3.
    If we are creating fresh static meshes for our mod, would that allow us to "easily" deal with issue, or at least plan for it?

    As far as different volumes for running, walking, and crouching...it seems to me that we could simply attach the wall walking to the crouch control for the alien and adjust his crouch speed to be faster. What are the ramifications of that?

    -Safe

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  • replied
    The walls only *look* complicated in UT3 maps... The surfaces a player typically touches are actually relatively simple invisible BSP blocking volumes, while what you *see* is a complicated static mesh that you don't collide with (often). It's actually a right pain in the *** to deal with so that one only wallruns on blocking volumes that have static meshes near/behind them. I dealt with this problem in the UT2k4 version, but it has been a bit tougher (and more prevalent) in UT3.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Hyrage View Post
    Do not forget that, yes it would be cool, but the UE3 maps are deeply detailed... wall-running would just be buggy.

    Flat walls everyone?
    Not Flat Walls, but Wall Walking (running) volumes that are used to calculate collision only for running (to position aliens body correctly). Normal collision applied when you try to hide alien (crouch), or sneak. Also while body slides on walking volume legs can just touch usual collision surfaces, this would enhance animations and make alien look better while climbing.

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  • replied
    Do not forget that, yes it would be cool, but the UE3 maps are deeply detailed... wall-running would just be buggy.

    Flat walls everyone?

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  • replied
    PHYS_Spider *is* in UT3, but the supporting PlayerController code had been removed. I have ported the UT2004 code for my as-yet unreleased Apoc MatrixMoves port to UT3, and now wallrunning works quite well. You'll be able to hack out the Wallrunning stuff from the Apoc MatrixMoves codebase (I'll be releasing it under an open license, so you'll be very much encouraged to mess with the code) and with a little tweaking, I'm sure you could achieve the AvP wallrunning feel.

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  • replied
    The matrix moves mutator in ut2004 did wall walking. That could probably be ported easily enough

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  • replied
    Originally posted by ambershee View Post
    To be honest, anything that applies in UT2004 largely applies in UT3; not much has changed. A Phys_Spider implementation could in theory be written using the UT2004 code as an example and should be relatively portable - the issue is then solving all the issues there were with that, that were never solved in the first place.
    Yikes.

    Well, good to know at any rate. I shall continue my research and hope someone smarter or more dedicated that me comes out with something soon that might serve as a better jumping off point.

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  • replied
    Originally posted by Fail-safe View Post
    I'm looking into creating some AvP2 mods for UT3--mutators and game types mostly--and I was wondering if there was any mod out there right now for UT3 that has done some work with wall-walking. I consider the wall-walking of the aliens a real must-have feature for any AvP stuff, but I understand there has been some difficulty in the past making wall/ceiling walking in the unreal engine, at least anything that matches up to the playability of the way they did it in AvP2.

    Any info on released projects, projects in development, or even just general discussion on the issues involved with wall and ceiling walking would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks,
    -safe

    P.S. I know there have been some matrix style wall walking for past UTs, but I don't know much about them or if they were very polished/easy to use. If that info is relevant to this discussion and UT3, please feel free to mention it.
    Oh yes, I want AvP mod. For sure I make some maps.

    Also there is one huge problem from mapper perspective: collision on all those tiny decoration meshes, it is enoguh to be a hassle on 2d walking, i cannot imagine doing all those collision volumes in 3d on detailed map. So when you do some coding make alien not sensitive to tiny bumps. I remember in AvP some roofs with tiny boxy lamps were horror to run, because alien was rotated all the tiem on each surface.

    Maybe some alien climb volume could be introduced. For eg. while running fast alien body uses that climb volume (while legs use level collision) , but when crouched, sneaking it uses usual map collision.

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