New mapper needs help.

[Optio]

Hey folks.

I've been a big fan of the UT series and have bought each and every one over the years, and loved downloading the maps made by fans. At one point I had about a gigabyte of custom content for UT99 (which a decade ago was a pretty hefty chunk!) and maybe half that for 2003 and 04.

Anyway, I thought it was high time that I had a go at making maps myself, so here I am with a couple of questions.

1) I've currently got one project (figuring that its probably better to complete maps in series to concentrate on details)thats blocked out in BSP, and I'm currently adding crude textures and lighting. What do I have to do to be able to distribute this map for alpha playtesting?

2) Do I need to compile a package for the map in its current BSP state? Theres no custom content (nor do I plan to add custom content in its final state) and only references stock UT3 + updates meshes and materials.

3) The map is a combination of derelict rail station and underground sewers. Ive made extensive usage of cylindrical brushes for the sewers but I'm concerned since everything I read seems to say to dispense with brushes and replace with static meshes. Are there any sewer-like meshes? I cant say that I've noticed them.

Thanks for the help folks!

[Foufoune_Rose]

Let me tell you what I think:

1) Whitebowing in BSP is great. For the scale, the gameplay, the lighting...
To distribute the map, simply share your .ut3 file that you have in the mydocuments/mygames/UT3/UTgame/Unpublished.
If you want to release it as a release candidate or final version, cook it with the "fire arrow" icon on the top right of the ed'. The "cooked" map will be transferred after a few work in the Published folder, apart from the "uncooked" version that is still in the "Unpublished".
The cook operation improve the map loading time, like a pre-precaching. It's unusal if you want to polish it and have other mappers to open it.

2) A map can be entirely made in BSP, look to the HOLP.

3) You can use BSP if your sewer is tortuous. If straight, look for a half-cylindrical mesh, like the walls in LT_Building.
Syphix did a great job with his sewer in DM-Stormdrain.
Look inside the more maps you can to see how the levels are built, and learn a few tricks by yourself .

[Odedge]

To add to Foufoune_Rose's comments...

1. BSP, basic textures, basic lighting is good start. The map should also have weapons/ammo/health/armor pickups in addition to a good bot path system.

This way when people test it, they can do so against the bots and have a better idea how the map will play.

2. When ever I distribute a map, I always publish it first, even if it's an alpha version. This way it will be as optimized as it can be.

3. While you can make a map entirely out of BSP (my current map is a HOLP style map), there are issue. The more complex the shapes of your BSP, the more likely you will run into BSP errors.

Also, a static mesh pipe will look better than one made out of BSP and be more efficient to render.

BSP does have it's place though and can be used for the basic shell of the map (floors, walls, and ceilings) as well as some other parts of the map.

Take a look at some of the stock maps and press the "W" button (toggles off static meshes) to see what BSP is used in the map.

Since you are new to the mapping side of UT, my signature has a link to a list of tutorials which may be helpful. Check out this one to see all of the different meshes you can use in your map.

[Cr4zy]

If you're new, and don't understand everything I HIGHLY recommend the 3dbuzz tutorials can be downloaded here: http://www.fileplanet.com/195417/190...-Tutorial-Pack
Even if you aren't new they offer valuable insight into pretty much all the areas of UT mapping. I found myself going back to them for about 1-1.5 years while still learning new things.

This and this post have checklist for publishing. This is usually for the finished product though. But they still give you a nice list of things incase you have forgotten anything,

[Optio]

I'm sorry for the delay, I rebuilt the BSP geometry of my map at a slightly larger size after the original sewers turned out to be tortuous and problematic.

On that subject, I was hoping somebody could help me out. I've got one error that renders a main artery (actually thinking about it I could just excise this section and go without, but it ruins symmetry) unusable. Its a fairly basic junction of two cylinders, one horizontal and one at 22 degrees to the horizontal with no other rotation of either cylinder; but whenever I playtest theres a hole in the wall and the entire cylinder from either entrance is impassable.

I'm still in the process of making this new version suitable for Alpha release but hopefully I should get that done by the end of the day.

Thanks for all the links to various tutorials, I bought the collectors edition of the game and have those videos on in the background so hopefully stuff sinks in by osmosis before I have to look anything up.

[Foufoune_Rose]

Its a fairly basic junction of two cylinders, one horizontal and one at 22 degrees to the horizontal with no other rotation of either cylinder; but whenever I playtest theres a hole in the wall and the entire cylinder from either entrance is impassable.

Too long; didn't read. Picture please?

[Optio]

Too long; didn't read. Picture please?

Haha! Fair enough. Actually, I described the wrong intersection, its actually just two cylinders at 90 degrees to each other. Still no idea why its giving an error, though.



http://www.flickr.com/photos/5960317...n/photostream/

[Odedge]

I'm sorry for the delay, I rebuilt the BSP geometry of my map at a slightly larger size after the original sewers turned out to be tortuous and problematic.

On that subject, I was hoping somebody could help me out. I've got one error that renders a main artery (actually thinking about it I could just excise this section and go without, but it ruins symmetry) unusable. Its a fairly basic junction of two cylinders, one horizontal and one at 22 degrees to the horizontal with no other rotation of either cylinder; but whenever I playtest theres a hole in the wall and the entire cylinder from either entrance is impassable.

I'm still in the process of making this new version suitable for Alpha release but hopefully I should get that done by the end of the day.

Thanks for all the links to various tutorials, I bought the collectors edition of the game and have those videos on in the background so hopefully stuff sinks in by osmosis before I have to look anything up.

This is too long to read. Huh?

That being said, it could just be an issue of your BSP not aligning correctly. Like I stated in one of my previous posts, the more complex your BSP, the more likely you will have problems.

Having 2 "round" (many sides) brushes trying to connect like that is difficult. So that's your issue.

In situations like this, static meshes are your friend.

[Optio]

Sorry for my absence, but as I'm sure you know real life gets in the way sometimes.

I've basically chucked the original idea out; it was too complicated with the BSP and I kept getting errors. Maybe I'll return to it at some point. I've since begun another new idea basing the level on a cargo ship, but run into a couple of problems.

The first is that while blocking out the BSP for decking, I couldnt edit the brush to take account of the curves for the bow and stern sections of the barge static mesh. I'd select the edge, or group of vertices, and drag, and then get something nothing like what I did, completely twisting the brush in terrible ways.

(I've since gotten around this by borrowing the hull BSP from Koos Barge in its entirety and scaling up to suit, but this is the sort of skill that becomes important later on so I need to know how to get around this.)

Connected to this is that now when I position static meshes by selecting two arms of the movement widget, it will move in the inverse of my mouse movements. EG, I select, and drag up and to the right; it will move down and to the left.

I get the feeling I've toggled something, but I dont know what it is.

Since the level is based on a ship, it would be pretty cool to have it like Koos Barge (I've studied the level quite a bit), sailing around on the ocean (complete with pitching and rolling), but I dont know how to do this.

Playing the level, it looks like the barge itself stays static, and the world moves around it. Wouldnt this be resource intensive? I'm further confused because the water plane appears to stay pretty static if you jump up on the side of the barge and look down on it.

[Odedge]

I think there are 3 questions in your post?

First, you can make "rounded" BSP, but you have to be careful with it being too complicated. For the bow of the ship, you should place your static meshes first to create the basic shape of the ship.

Then, you can use BSP to fill in the places you would walk on. But now you will know exactly what shape it needs to be. You can also extrude faces on BSP. This will give you one brush, but with multiple "segments" (similar to static mesh modeling).

Also keep in mind that the BSP can go into the static meshes and not cause BSP errors, though it might cause shadow issues on the meshes (if you use vertex lighting on the mesh). But it's worth a try.

Second, the adjusting of the meshes should never been in reverse. Check on the top left area of the editor for a drop down menu that says either "World" or "Local".

Normally it should be World. If you have selected to Local, it will move the mesh along the meshes axis, instead of the editor's axis. This can come in handy if you rotate the brush. There are times when you try to move it in the Z axis, it will go backwards.

As for the rocking of the surrounding environment in the Koos map, if you look at the map in wire frame mode you should notice that the sky dome, water, and other surrounding elements are a purplish color, which means they are an interpactor.

They should be animate in Kismet to rock back and forth (rather than going around in a circle). You only would have to animate one of the interpactors and attach the others to it. In this case, they probably animated the water plane.

[Optio]

I think there are 3 questions in your post?

First, you can make "rounded" BSP, but you have to be careful with it being too complicated. For the bow of the ship, you should place your static meshes first to create the basic shape of the ship.

Then, you can use BSP to fill in the places you would walk on. But now you will know exactly what shape it needs to be. You can also extrude faces on BSP. This will give you one brush, but with multiple "segments" (similar to static mesh modeling).

Also keep in mind that the BSP can go into the static meshes and not cause BSP errors, though it might cause shadow issues on the meshes (if you use vertex lighting on the mesh). But it's worth a try.

Second, the adjusting of the meshes should never been in reverse. Check on the top left area of the editor for a drop down menu that says either "World" or "Local".

Normally it should be World. If you have selected to Local, it will move the mesh along the meshes axis, instead of the editor's axis. This can come in handy if you rotate the brush. There are times when you try to move it in the Z axis, it will go backwards.

Thanks for this, everythings now back to normal and I can edit brushes effectively now.

The static mesh I'm using for the ships hull is the koos barge hull static mesh suitably scaled up.

They should be animate in Kismet to rock back and forth (rather than going around in a circle). You only would have to animate one of the interpactors and attach the others to it. In this case, they probably animated the water plane.

I saw that they were all kismet actors in the editor, attaching everything to the one plane makes sense.

What I meant was that the whole world moves with the perceived pitching and rolling of the ship, but if you stand on the deck and look at the terrain, it also seems to be going past moving from right to left (looking over the port side).

[Odedge]

Thanks for this, everythings now back to normal and I can edit brushes effectively now.

You're welcome.

What I meant was that the whole world moves with the perceived pitching and rolling of the ship, but if you stand on the deck and look at the terrain, it also seems to be going past moving from right to left (looking over the port side).

I haven't played this map in a while. But looking at it in the editor, it does have Kismet sequences titled "BG moving land" and "BG SMALL moving rock", so it's not your "perception".