PS3/UT3 Custom Map - Dimensions

[phloog]

I am getting ready to build a map of a different sort, intending to use it for the PS3. I understand that at certain levels of complexity, there may be polygonal limitations that lead to slowdown.

What I'm wondering, and was unable to find exactly here so far, is if there are limits to the SCALE/SCOPE of a map. Imagine that someone (okay, me) wanted to build a race track - - actually more of a dragstrip, for racing of vehicles.

Is there a limit to how many units long/wide a map can be? If I stick with fairly simple geography, can it be as long as the system can support? I guess at a certain point draw distance might be an issue (all players can see all points forever), but I'm wondering if there is indeed a preset limit to how big a map can be not in terms of polygons, but just good old dimension.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
JT

[DGUnreal]

The World dimensions are limited to 512k units cubed, which is about 10km cubes. You will find however that you usually won't get much larger than 128k through 256k. As you get further from origin you start getting into rounding and z-depth issues etc.
So long as the map is designed with proper occlusion etc., there is [usually] no reason why you can't make a 256k square play area, except that some design setups can suffer from physics issues etc.

[phloog]

So I might run into some issues, since what I'm envisioning is a straight race track...if I get too long, I'll run into 'distance from origin' issues, if I'm reading you correctly.

Is this something that would be obvious in-editor, or will I need to bake it into a finished level before I know I've made it too long?

Is there also a site anywhere with vehicle speeds in it? I'm guessing if I knew how fast everything travels, that would tell me how long an acceptable track length would be. It's a weird idea I had, but I think it could be cool

[DGUnreal]

Yes, that is correct. As with anything mathematical, the further you get from origin the more rounding error you get. Whether this will affect what you are doing is difficult to say, a 131072 unit straight track is approximately 2.5km, which is quite long, and should have minimal issues. Best to center it on origin (ie. 65536 to -65536).

I haven't seen any posted vehicle speeds in unreal units, but their velocity values should be in the scripts. 1 unreal unit is 2 cm.
I would create a 65536 or 131072 long CSG Brush, set a vehicle on it, and see how well it goes.

[D-Hunter]

The World dimensions are limited to 512k units cubed, which is about 10km cubes. You will find however that you usually won't get much larger than 128k through 256k. As you get further from origin you start getting into rounding and z-depth issues etc.
So long as the map is designed with proper occlusion etc., there is [usually] no reason why you can't make a 256k square play area, except that some design setups can suffer from physics issues etc.

I think some good occlusion and simple LOD settings could have no problem handling the limit-reaching level. Here is proof: http://utforums.epicgames.com/showthread.php?t=606155

[DGUnreal]

Actually it will mess up before you reach the edges of the world.
If you want to test this, create a CSG floor out near the world edge and put a playerstart on it, the player physics have issues.
I've done this before.

[D-Hunter]

Actually it will mess up before you reach the edges of the world.
If you want to test this, create a CSG floor out near the world edge and put a playerstart on it, the player physics have issues.
I've done this before.

I didn't have any issues in my map at all (except for the fact that touching the world edge is instant-death), but then again, I was using a terrain. Remember, brushes must be on the grid for the geometry to work properly. As long as the reference surface is on the grid, the terrain plane can be as large as you like.

[phloog]

Race Map - Input

Thanks, all - - it sounds like it might work, since I don't want the Indy 500, just a quick race.

If you don't mind me diverting my own thread a bit, I'd like opinions on this idea - how you might change it, whether or not you think it would be fun, would there be balance issues, etc. And of course maybe someone will steal my idea, do it better than I ever could, and I can just play the result!

Here is the thought:

A map with two fairly-well-divided 'lanes' for the racers.

Attached to each track for each team is a 'locker room', where the teams start - one path leads down to the 'garage' and the other up to the main floor.

The track is inside a large area, and there are ledges on the walls, with gates/teleporters/jumppoints allowing movement up the walls and viewing of both tracks for those who opt to be attackers.

The vehicle tracks run along with no ceiling - basically just deep grooves- until the very end, when both tracks enter a separate room.

In this room are BOTH teams flags....it's Team CTF with a victory condition of 1 - - game ends when someone runs into the flag and just runs over the adjacent goal - in a near tie they duke it out.

The rest of the team members can attack each other and the opposing vehicles from a distance, but it would be very difficult to win on foot/hoverboard. Those who don't head to the garage are in charge of generating mayhem.

Weapons would need to be of the type that don't insta-kill vehicles, but could take out a racer.

The two race vehicles would be in separate lanes, so probably could not attack each other (though I might add gaps in the barrier between lanes).

I was also thinking that each starting position would have TWO vehicles, one behind the other, so one tactic might be to send TWO players to vehicles.

I have concerns about balance, fun, and the fact that you have to completely restart after one race.

Thoughts?

[[s§s]Bison_Boy]

First, I'm not sure how to kill a driver without killing the car?

ummm, so zoom away go the 2 cars, dust in the distance,,,,, now what do I do left at the base?? Should I just log off the server?

I'd suggest add teleporters all along the track to allow sniping the cars and other spectators BUT place barriers so that you can't get to the flag except by driving and only new spawns can get to the car.

[phloog]

My mistake for not being clear -- in addition to the two cars (allowing two people to drive if they fear that one car will be lost) per team, the members of any team that don't go to the track will have a path of gates, jump points, etc.

These will allow non-drivers to very quickly move down the track, perhaps even quicker than the vehicles...however, as you move further down the track, I planned on either making the 'pedestrian platforms' either higher and higher up the walls, or taking some other action to keep the primary race elements in vehicles (big deadly moats and such).

Imagine a barrel shaped outer shell - round on the sides - the endcaps are Start/Finish. Flatten the 'floor' of this barrel, and insert two racetracks. Now put little sniping platforms all along the inner walls of the barrel...when you reach one platform, you have gates or other mechanisms to quickly reach the next platform down the raceway, but there are barriers preventing you from just popping from one pedplatform to another until you're at the entrance to the flag room.

Again, I'm not positive it will even work/be fun, but I'm giving it a shot...but yes, the players not in a vehicle (which would be all but 1 or 2 of each team) will be busying themselves either A) attempting to blow up the opposing vehicle, or B) attempting to kill the other teams shooters to protect their own racer.

So you and I are somewhat on the same track (pun intended)...

I like your thought about only new spawns getting to the car....this is probably a stupid question, but how could I do that? I could definitely see removing the 'locker room' for drivers AND snipers, and putting spawn points separately on the track and observation spots, but I'm not sure how to do something like "IF there is no valid driver right now, any new deaths spawn in the garage"...is this possible via Kismet or other scripting? Some kind of 'test on each player death' or something.

If it would work, that would be cool because then they couldn't CHOOSE their driver - it would be who initially spawned there, and then whoever gets killed when no driver is out there.

[apoisonedgift]

Pretty much anything is possible if you learn Kismet properly